The 8600 is a fairly pointless card to buy. It's main advantage over a 7900GS is that it has DX10 support, but by the time DX10 becomes prevalent it won't be fast enough to make much use of that.

Best bang for your buck is something along the lines of a 7600GT or 7900GS now, and then upgrade to some form of an 8800 in a year or two. A good rule of thumb is to always stay around 1.5 generations (6xxx, 7xxx, 8xxx) behind. Get the best card of whatever generation that is, stick with it until it can't run what you need anymore, then repeat the process.

Quote: Original post by LockePick
The 8600 is a fairly pointless card to buy. It's main advantage over a 7900GS is that it has DX10 support, but by the time DX10 becomes prevalent it won't be fast enough to make much use of that.

Best bang for your buck is something along the lines of a 7600GT or 7900GS now, and then upgrade to some form of an 8800 in a year or two. A good rule of thumb is to always stay around 1.5 generations (6xxx, 7xxx, 8xxx) behind. Get the best card of whatever generation that is, stick with it until it can't run what you need anymore, then repeat the process.

The 7900GS would be more pointless to get since it offers less performance,is last gen and cost about the same as a 8600.
What if you wanted to move up to SLI in the future?
I doubt you would find any 7900gs cards around in a year but you probably will still be able to get a 2nd 8600 to use in SLI or just buy a newer tech faster card. Now that I think about it you might be able to make some money off ebay from someone looking for out of production 7900gs to use in SLI so it might not be a bad idea after all?
p.s. That reminds me I'm thinking of selling my old 7900GTX card myself now that I got a 8800 and have no need for it. Then again I might keep it and hope it dies or go bad so I can RMA it and get a 8800 to use in SLI since that's what EVGA will send you since they don't make/sell 7900GTX anymore.

Quote: Original post by daviangel
The 7900GS would be more pointless to get since it offers less performance,is last gen and cost about the same as a 8600.

A 7900GS is actually generally faster than an 8600GT. If you want to go that route then the best bang for buck is the X1950Pro.

Quote: What if you wanted to move up to SLI in the future?

Then he wouldn't be buying an Intel chipset with one PCI-Express slot now would he...

Quote: I doubt you would find any 7900gs cards around in a year but you probably will still be able to get a 2nd 8600 to use in SLI or just buy a newer tech faster card.

One faster card is better than 2 obsolete cards in SLI...

Quote: Then again I might keep it and hope it dies or go bad so I can RMA it and get a 8800 to use in SLI since that's what EVGA will send you since they don't make/sell 7900GTX anymore.

No they would send you what they think is the equivalent card, you'll probably get some 8600 or the 8800-320MB if you are lucky...

I'll second the suggestions by agi_shi. Check your powersupply you might not need a new one, 350W may work if your on single HD and one Optical drive but don't take my word for it.

your cpu is pretty ok, its definitly the gpu thats the weak link

a gf 7600 is prolly the best bet price/performance (i have a gf7600gs + its sweet)

Quote: Original post by fpsgamer
You're right, AMD and ATI aswell give a much better price/performance ratio than Intel and Nvidia.

It's not about AMD and ATI, or the other two. You can have even AMD and NVIDIA, or the other combination without any ill effect. In fact you can have Intel mainboard, and ATI GFX card.

Nathan you are incredible. One of virtues of quality programmer/SW architect is knowledge about hardware, its capabilities and prices. Obviously its pointless to develop for 7900/8800 series of GFX cards because these are non affordable by majority of people. Not to mention that a power consumption of NV 8800 is 170 W. (Power consumption of a PS3 is 193 W).

If you'd like quick and dirty update, simply find an ATI card from HD 2600 series (pro) for AGP, and be happy. Thought if you'd be graphic programmer you'd know AGP is outdated, and it's quite bottleneck for majority of operations. I for example simply need 8xxx / HD 2xxx series for easier computation on GFX card, with all bells and whistles (performance doesn't matter).
Note NVIDIA more or less phased out AGP already. (and AGP cards are somehow more expensive)

If you'd like complete update with mainboard. AMD X2 went cheap, Intel's E2160 is quite cheap as well. Add to it a quality mainboard (for example from ASUS).
The funny thing is a NV 7600 GT didn't went down as expected, and you can have 8xxx series at similar price as 7xxx series. I'd stay away from ATI HD 2400 pro/XT because of low memory bandwidth and BAD fill rate. HD 2600 is decent. (with crappy drivers)

DDR2 at 667 MHz has the best price ratio for common system, however you missed buying period by two months.

BTW if you'd get new MB look if it uses 20 pins or 24 pins. It's not tragedy for low end system if a power source has 20 pins, because remedy is under $5 or so. However you'd save a small shock and one voyage into shop.

And yes you CPU is somehow weaker. Even Sempron 2400+ would be more powerful. However if you don't plan radical update, you should leave that money for later. If you'd like update now you should choose AMD X2, or Intel E2160 or so. IIRC you can have somehow reasonable GFX card, and MB and AMD X2, and 1GB of memory within your budget. (Thought somewhat unsure about VIA chipset, you should rather pay for quality.)

And one more thing. I played Oblivion on FX 5700. IIRC it's about the same speed as your 6200, so...

Quote: Original post by ExcessNeo

Quote: Original post by agi_shi
EDIT: Here's a quick list I came up with:

fortron 400W - 40$: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817104953

corsair 1GB ddr2 667 - 45$:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820145568

gigabyte ds3 965P - 110$:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128012

conroe e4400 - 130$: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115014

evga 7600GT OC - 100$:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130017

It comes out to 425$, not including shipping and or price differences between the US and UK. But - it can serve as a good guide...

Here are the UK equivalents (couldnt find all exact equivalents as newegg descripts are terrible compared to the uber titles of Scan computers), looked at all 3 of the UK's major e-tailers that i trust and have ordered from, and made sure i found the site with the cheapest price (scan mostly):
400W FSP ATX-400PNF pPFC PSU ATX 2.01 ATX12V upto 85% Eff' PCI-E SATA Ready - £32.49 Inc VAT

Gigabyte GA-945P-DS3 Socket 775 I945P onboard audio ATX - £51.08 inc VAT

1Gb (2X512Mb) Corsair Value Select, DDR2 PC5400 (667), 240 Pin, Non-ECC Unbuffered, CAS 5-5-5-15 - £26.48 Inc VAT

Intel Core 2 Duo E4400, Socket 775, 2.0 GHz, 800MHz FSB, Allendale Core, 2MB Cache, Retail - £77.54 Inc VAT

OcUK GeForce 7600 GT 256MB GDDR3 TV-Out/DVI (PCI-Express) - Retail - £58.74 inc VAT

Running total £246.33 ($492.66)

Woo, running kindly badly :( Didn't know the price differences would be that high.

Quote: Original post by daviangel
You can get an AMD cpu that's fast enough for any current game out there and save $100US to boot!
It's very doable and that's why AMD is still able to compete with Intel because when it comes to shaving off as many dollars as you can to build a system AMD is the one to pick not Intel.
An athlon x3800 and this card can play Oblivion decently at 1280x1024 since I have personally run this combination and it's fast enough.

S939? It's phased out. Why buy for S939?

Anyways, yes you can save a bit of money with AMD's lower chips (high chips are pricey and yet slower than Intel's C2). Let's see what I can come up with...


amd athlon64 x2 3600+ (brisbane, 65nm - windsors don't OC too well , and they are 90nm) - 62$: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103046<br><br>&lt;offtopic&gt;<br><!–QUOTE–><BLOCKQUOTE><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><table border=0 cellpadding=4 cellspacing=0 width="95%"><tr><td class=quote><!–/QUOTE–><!–STARTQUOTE–><i>Original Post By Some Newegg Reviewer</i>I am running this baby with the stock cooler at 3.1ghz and it never reaches 40% even when hammered with multitasking.<!–QUOTE–></td></tr></table></BLOCKQUOTE><!–/QUOTE–><!–ENDQUOTE–><br>Please people, don't overclock like this guy… it doesn't matter how much CPU usages it reaches, the stability and temperature is what matters. &#79;n stock cooling, his is probably going to melt in the next few days…<br>&lt;/offtopic&gt;<br><br>asus m2n-e (570 ultra) - 100$: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131022<br><br>That should bring the price down. The chip is 65nm and it overclocks like crazy (my 90nm x2 3800+ windsor went to FX-62 speeds without a problem, kept under 53C all the time [idle at 36C] [load was with orthos]), and the mobo is an asus… personally, I went with the foxconn 590SLI, but it's a bit pricey.<br><br>Keep the ram, GPU, and PSU from above. They'll all work together happily.<br><br>Yeah, you won't be able to change to a c2d/q without changing your mobo, but a least you can get a 6000+ in the future. It's stock at 3.0GHz, so I'd assume it can go to at least 3.5GHz, if not 4. Should be good for an athlon64.<br><br><!–EDIT–><span class=editedby><!–/EDIT–>[Edited by - agi_shi on July 23, 2007 8:54:41 AM]<!–EDIT–></span><!–/EDIT–>

Quote: Original post by ExcessNeo
400W FSP ATX-400PNF pPFC PSU ATX 2.01 ATX12V upto 85% Eff' PCI-E SATA Ready - £32.49 Inc VAT
Gigabyte GA-945P-DS3 Socket 775 I945P onboard audio ATX - £51.08 inc VAT
1Gb (2X512Mb) Corsair Value Select, DDR2 PC5400 (667), 240 Pin, Non-ECC Unbuffered, CAS 5-5-5-15 - £26.48 Inc VAT
Intel Core 2 Duo E4400, Socket 775, 2.0 GHz, 800MHz FSB, Allendale Core, 2MB Cache, Retail - £77.54 Inc VAT
OcUK GeForce 7600 GT 256MB GDDR3 TV-Out/DVI (PCI-Express) - Retail - £58.74 inc VAT
Running total £246.33 ($492.66)

Swapping out the mobo and processor to AMD:
Asus M2N, NF430, S AM2, PCI-E (x16), DDR2 533/667/800, SATA II, SATA RAID, ATX - £42.10 Inc VAT

AMD AM2 Athlon 64 3800+ Windsor Core, Dual Core 2GHz, 2x 512KB Cache, Energy Efficient Retail - £42.88 Inc VAT

Running total £202.69 ($405.38)

Quote: Original post by ExcessNeo

Quote: Original post by ExcessNeo
400W FSP ATX-400PNF pPFC PSU ATX 2.01 ATX12V upto 85% Eff' PCI-E SATA Ready - £32.49 Inc VAT
Gigabyte GA-945P-DS3 Socket 775 I945P onboard audio ATX - £51.08 inc VAT
1Gb (2X512Mb) Corsair Value Select, DDR2 PC5400 (667), 240 Pin, Non-ECC Unbuffered, CAS 5-5-5-15 - £26.48 Inc VAT
Intel Core 2 Duo E4400, Socket 775, 2.0 GHz, 800MHz FSB, Allendale Core, 2MB Cache, Retail - £77.54 Inc VAT
OcUK GeForce 7600 GT 256MB GDDR3 TV-Out/DVI (PCI-Express) - Retail - £58.74 inc VAT
Running total £246.33 ($492.66)

Swapping out the mobo and processor to AMD:
Asus M2N, NF430, S AM2, PCI-E (x16), DDR2 533/667/800, SATA II, SATA RAID, ATX - £42.10 Inc VAT

AMD AM2 Athlon 64 3800+ Windsor Core, Dual Core 2GHz, 2x 512KB Cache, Energy Efficient Retail - £42.88 Inc VAT

Running total £202.69 ($405.38)

Hmm... Well, the price works, but there aren't the exact versions I mentioned?

1) Windsor is 90nm. Brisbane (one I mentioned) is 65nm. X2 3600+, 100 MHz slower than the Windsor X2 3800+
2) The Asus M2N NF430... not sure of it's quality. Isn't there the NF570 ultra one in the UK??

Quote: Original post by agi_shi
1) Windsor is 90nm. Brisbane (one I mentioned) is 65nm. X2 3600+, 100 MHz slower than the Windsor X2 3800+

More expensive than the Windsor, i couldnt find it at first but just found it on ebuyer.
Amd Athlon64 X2 3600+ Socket Am2 2x512kb L2 Cache 65watt Retail Boxed Processor - £46.59 inc VAT

Quote:
2) The Asus M2N NF430... not sure of it's quality. Isn't there the NF570 ultra one in the UK??

The only NF570 i could find were SLI motherboards like this one:
M2n-sli Deluxe Atx Socket Am2 Nvidia Nforce 570 Sli Mcp 8gb Ddr2 Sata2 Dual Gigabit Lan Audio - £67.17 inc