Quote: Original post by Nathan Baum

Quote: Original post by daviangel
Well if you plan on playing Oblivion at a decent framerate ~30fps you really have no choice and need to get at least a 7900GTX,8600 or 8800 or higher level card videocard to play that game.

You can check it out here for yourself here. A 7300 card just isn't gonna cut.
Oblivion is one of the new games like Stalker that actually makes use of your videocard so for that game cpu speed doesn't matter much.

"By testing the GeForce 7900 GS and 7900 GTX SLI cards with CPUs ranging from the Athlon 64 X2 3600+ all the way up to the Core 2 Extreme, we should get a better idea of which CPU’s perform best with a high-end graphics setup, as well as a more conventional mainstream graphics config. That’s the goal at least.

Well, the 8800 is way out of my price range.

Tom's Hardware's GPU comparison doesn't know the 8500 exists, but judging by the reviews, it looks like the 7600, which I can get at the same price, would have better gaming performance. Again I wish that Nvidia would be honest in their naming scheme.

I strongly urge you to get at least an 8600GTS vidcard since a 7600 just isn't going to cut it if you want to play Oblivion.
Besides I think if you search online you can probably get one for $150 now instead of the $200 when they first came out.

It's okay for most other games though. But trust me I remember building my first dualcore system and 7800 vidcard and that rig cut through quake4,doom3,just about any game I tested on it until I tried Oblivion and then it choked and cried!
Don't even think about getting a 8500 card since it's about as fast as my old ati 9800 card! It's 4 levels of performance below an 8600 card if you look at the chart and only 2 levels faster than your current card.

[Edited by - daviangel on July 23, 2007 12:24:45 AM]

Quote: Original post by Nathan Baum
It looks like high-end Intel CPUs out-perform high-end AMD CPUs, but I appear to get more FLOPs for my money from AMD. For what I can afford, AMD seems to be the best choice.

You're right, AMD and ATI aswell give a much better price/performance ratio than Intel and Nvidia.

Quote: Original post by nts
What's your price range?

I have (the equivalent of) US$ 410 for everything.

Quote: Original post by nts
What's your price range?

Agreed, we need you price limit. Maybe we can wiggle you by easier if we knew your exact limit.

N/M, just saw it. $400 will get you a pretty darn long way, but then again, the components probably aren't priced the same where you live...

Let me see what I can come up with, I'm sure I can make something way better than your own system for $410.

(Also, GiB? WTF? Ram comes in powers of two, not ten... It's GB... fucking new namings)

EDIT: Here's a quick list I came up with:

fortron 400W - 40$: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817104953

corsair 1GB ddr2 667 - 45$:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820145568

gigabyte ds3 965P - 110$:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128012

conroe e4400 - 130$: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115014

evga 7600GT OC - 100$:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130017

It comes out to 425$, not including shipping and or price differences between the US and UK. But - it can serve as a good guide...

General Advice:
- check your PSU. What are its watts and amps? I'd bet you 10 bucks that it won't hold up to a proper upgrade, unless it's a quality PSU
- don't go for a cheap PSU if you decide to upgrade it. PSUs don't work that way. Quality ones are Antec, Fortron, OCZ, PCP&C, Thermaltake is usually O.K., and some others that I can't remember right now...
- the above fortron is excellent. Weighs a lot (good quality parts), has good amperage (18 and 17 amps on the +12V rails, IIRC), doesn't get too hot, and can power a lot of stuff. and it's pretty cheap for such a PSU
- I see no point in sticking with that old system. PCI express is "da' ting'", not AGP (although some manufacturers are making new AGP cards...)
- DO NOT, I REPEAT: DO NOT!! get a g80 card below the 8800 series. The 8500 is garbage, and the 8600 is not much faster (if at all faster) than the 7600GT and 7900GS. The above 7600GT will be pretty fine for most gaming, and will blow your 6200's guts out.
- corsair's value ram is quality ram stuck without a heat spreader and instead a "value" sticker. DDR2 667 is good enough unless you want to overclock
- C2Ds are the way to go. The e4400 is the cheapest I found. Do not let it fool you. They overclock like crazy, and the lower models usually overclock more than the middle models. Hell, they're good enough even at stock.
- the Gigabyte board is excellent for a C2D. Has a good chipset and good overclocking abilities. Go for ASUS/gigabyte/foxconn (who do you think makes most of the boards out there...)/some others that I forget

(@ people: don't bash the AthlonXPs!!! they are teh awesome chips! [well, were])

Oh, and I forgot to mention: the above will friggin' own your old system, and both of the mentioned "upgrades".

[Edited by - agi_shi on July 22, 2007 5:55:57 PM]

Quote: Original post by agi_shi
EDIT: Here's a quick list I came up with:

fortron 400W - 40$: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817104953

corsair 1GB ddr2 667 - 45$:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820145568

gigabyte ds3 965P - 110$:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128012

conroe e4400 - 130$: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115014

evga 7600GT OC - 100$:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130017

Woo, that's pretty neat. Thanks for that. I appreciate the effort! [smile]

Quote:
- check your PSU. What are its watts and amps? I'd bet you 10 bucks that it won't hold up to a proper upgrade, unless it's a quality PSU

It's quality, but I bought it specifically because it was quiet. I wouldn't be surprised if it couldn't handle a higher load.

Quote:
- DO NOT, I REPEAT: DO NOT!! get a g80 card below the 8800 series. The 8500 is garbage, and the 8600 is not much faster (if at all faster) than the 7600GT and 7900GS. The above 7600GT will be pretty fine for most gaming, and will blow your 6200's guts out.

Meh. I'm annoyed but not, in retrospect, surprised that the numbers on GeForce chipsets are purely decorative. It's certainly a good job I checked, because I probably would have bought a sucky card: "It's only 200 less than this card. It can't be much worse."

Quote:
- C2Ds are the way to go. The e4400 is the cheapest I found. Do not let it fool you. They overclock like crazy, and the lower models usually overclock more than the middle models. Hell, they're good enough even at stock.

Yeah. I wanted to go dual-core if I found an affordable solution. I do quite a lot of multitasking, and it looks like that's where dual core's real benefits are seen.

Quote: Original post by Nathan Baum

Quote: Original post by agi_shi
EDIT: Here's a quick list I came up with:

fortron 400W - 40$: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817104953

corsair 1GB ddr2 667 - 45$:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820145568

gigabyte ds3 965P - 110$:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128012

conroe e4400 - 130$: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115014

evga 7600GT OC - 100$:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130017

Woo, that's pretty neat. Thanks for that. I appreciate the effort! [smile]

I find making lists of components for computers pretty fun. After all, building computers is my hobby.

Quote:

Quote:
- check your PSU. What are its watts and amps? I'd bet you 10 bucks that it won't hold up to a proper upgrade, unless it's a quality PSU

It's quality, but I bought it specifically because it was quiet. I wouldn't be surprised if it couldn't handle a higher load.

Copied over from Techspot (hope they don't mind [grin]):

Look on the side and check its +12V rail amps and it's wattage. And company. Company matters, trust me.

Quote:

Quote:
- DO NOT, I REPEAT: DO NOT!! get a g80 card below the 8800 series. The 8500 is garbage, and the 8600 is not much faster (if at all faster) than the 7600GT and 7900GS. The above 7600GT will be pretty fine for most gaming, and will blow your 6200's guts out.

Meh. I'm annoyed but not, in retrospect, surprised that the numbers on GeForce chipsets are purely decorative. It's certainly a good job I checked, because I probably would have bought a sucky card: "It's only 200 less than this card. It can't be much worse."

High-end previous-gen will beat low-end next-gen. It's just the features. Also, if you decide to not buy a new powersupply (if you at all were going to in the first place), you can use the extra money for a better gfx card. Check out the 7900GS and, I hate to say it, but the 8600GTS as well. I think they're about the same speed, but the 8000 one is obviously more feature-rich. And it's not as slow as the GT version, so you should be fine.

Quote:

Quote:
- C2Ds are the way to go. The e4400 is the cheapest I found. Do not let it fool you. They overclock like crazy, and the lower models usually overclock more than the middle models. Hell, they're good enough even at stock.

Yeah. I wanted to go dual-core if I found an affordable solution. I do quite a lot of multitasking, and it looks like that's where dual core's real benefits are seen.

Yup. These also overclock like crazy (even on stock cooling), so if you get a good OC mobo (*cough* like the gigabyte P965...... */cough*), you can ramp it up a bit. (Of course, don't risk it if you cannot afford a new one, so I suggest you don't risk it at all [grin]...)

Peace dude [smile]

Quote: Original post by agi_shi
EDIT: Here's a quick list I came up with:

fortron 400W - 40$: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817104953

corsair 1GB ddr2 667 - 45$:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820145568

gigabyte ds3 965P - 110$:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128012

conroe e4400 - 130$: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115014

evga 7600GT OC - 100$:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130017

It comes out to 425$, not including shipping and or price differences between the US and UK. But - it can serve as a good guide...

Here are the UK equivalents (couldnt find all exact equivalents as newegg descripts are terrible compared to the uber titles of Scan computers), looked at all 3 of the UK's major e-tailers that i trust and have ordered from, and made sure i found the site with the cheapest price (scan mostly):
400W FSP ATX-400PNF pPFC PSU ATX 2.01 ATX12V upto 85% Eff' PCI-E SATA Ready - £32.49 Inc VAT

Gigabyte GA-945P-DS3 Socket 775 I945P onboard audio ATX - £51.08 inc VAT

1Gb (2X512Mb) Corsair Value Select, DDR2 PC5400 (667), 240 Pin, Non-ECC Unbuffered, CAS 5-5-5-15 - £26.48 Inc VAT

Intel Core 2 Duo E4400, Socket 775, 2.0 GHz, 800MHz FSB, Allendale Core, 2MB Cache, Retail - £77.54 Inc VAT

OcUK GeForce 7600 GT 256MB GDDR3 TV-Out/DVI (PCI-Express) - Retail - £58.74 inc VAT

Running total £246.33 ($492.66)

I suggest switching the Intel CPU for an AMD to save money to upgrade to at least a 8600.
Another idea would be to get a cheaper evga 8500 card and use EVGA's famous step-up program which I have used in the past to upgrade later on to an 8600 if you think you can come up with the extra cash within 3 months and by then the prices will probably go down even more.
And if you still haven't got the message about how crappy the card you are trying to get is here is another review I just came across that makes the point alot better than I obviously am:
" Terrible performance, unless you're willing to make your games ugly so they run faster.
Summary: Even year-old games can't be run at 1280x1024, the standard small-size LCD resolution, without making serious sacrifices in visual quality. If you don't care enough about game performance to want more than this, just stick with integrated graphics."

So according to this review might as well save your videocard money and stick with the onboard graphics until you can afford a decent card.

Quote: Original post by daviangel
I suggest switching the Intel CPU for an AMD to save money to upgrade to at least a 8600.
Another idea would be to get a cheaper evga 8500 card and use EVGA's famous step-up program which I have used in the past to upgrade later on to an 8600 if you think you can come up with the extra cash within 3 months and by then the prices will probably go down even more.
And if you still haven't got the message about how crappy the card you are trying to get is here is another review I just came across that makes the point alot better than I obviously am:
" Terrible performance, unless you're willing to make your games ugly so they run faster.
Summary: Even year-old games can't be run at 1280x1024, the standard small-size LCD resolution, without making serious sacrifices in visual quality. If you don't care enough about game performance to want more than this, just stick with integrated graphics."

So according to this review might as well save your videocard money and stick with the onboard graphics until you can afford a decent card.

The £20-30 saved for a much lower power AMD X2 would not add enough money to the already overblown budget to buy a 8600GTS (which is the only midrange 8 series card worth buying though if going that far might aswell save another £60 and get a 320mb 8800GTS and have a good card.

Quote: Original post by ExcessNeo

Quote: Original post by daviangel
I suggest switching the Intel CPU for an AMD to save money to upgrade to at least a 8600.
Another idea would be to get a cheaper evga 8500 card and use EVGA's famous step-up program which I have used in the past to upgrade later on to an 8600 if you think you can come up with the extra cash within 3 months and by then the prices will probably go down even more.
And if you still haven't got the message about how crappy the card you are trying to get is here is another review I just came across that makes the point alot better than I obviously am:
" Terrible performance, unless you're willing to make your games ugly so they run faster.
Summary: Even year-old games can't be run at 1280x1024, the standard small-size LCD resolution, without making serious sacrifices in visual quality. If you don't care enough about game performance to want more than this, just stick with integrated graphics."

So according to this review might as well save your videocard money and stick with the onboard graphics until you can afford a decent card.

The £20-30 saved for a much lower power AMD X2 would not add enough money to the already overblown budget to buy a 8600GTS (which is the only midrange 8 series card worth buying though if going that far might aswell save another £60 and get a 320mb 8800GTS and have a good card.

You can get an AMD cpu that's fast enough for any current game out there and save $100US to boot!
It's very doable and that's why AMD is still able to compete with Intel because when it comes to shaving off as many dollars as you can to build a system AMD is the one to pick not Intel.
An athlon x3800 and this card can play Oblivion decently at 1280x1024 since I have personally run this combination and it's fast enough.

So I suggest that the videocard choice is not negotiable and to cut cost elsewhere like cpu like I showed and motherboard,etc.
Remember the whole point of upgrading was to play fairly recent games which means the videocard is the most critical choice!