The solution is not, I repeat _NOT_ to remove experience from combat. The solution is twofold:

Firstly, expand the possibilities. Combat is one way to gainperience, but by no means the only way. Theft, trading, politics, animal husbandry, even transport use (Dragon-back riding, schooner-sailing) are all viable ways to gain experience. Diversify.

Secondly, success at combat doesn''t give you generic experience, it gives you combat proficiency. The more fight you win, the more venerable a fighter you are. Killing off an entire human tribe helps diddly-squat should you need to ride a dragon.

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You say that Diablo II might be a way to go? Well, I think the one thing that detracted most from Diablo II WAS its combat system. How bored can you get from clicking on yet another hellspawn to see it die and do it all over again...

IMO you need a combat system that will involve the player and require them to be as quick-witted as their character is supposed to be.

Here are some of my own thoughts on Combat systems

-Chris Bennett of Dwarfsoft - The future of RPGs
Thanks to all the goblins over in our little Game Design Corner niche

Edited by - dwarfsoft on April 18, 2001 3:29:17 AM

"Quote" from Tom -I propose implementing a system of turn-based combat nearly identical to that of Final Fantasy 7/8/9, but incorporating movement as an action. When combat begins, everything within a certain radius is locked into the fight, and turns are taken (according to initiative scores) by each participant. Each player should be given a brief time limit in which to select an action (ten seconds is fair), or his/her turn will be passed up.

-Its called Chrono Tigger, made by Sqauresoft.

I find that a 10second delay would be quite annoying... 10 seconds is a long time... hell, in a game I wouldn''t give 2 seconds... but maybe that is just me

-Chris Bennett of Dwarfsoft - The future of RPGs
Thanks to all the goblins over in our little Game Design Corner niche

I think rather than a strict 10-second delay, should the player make a move within the ten seconds, the turn ends right there. A set 10 second delay would get antagonising after a while.



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If I might just lodge a small query at this point: Has anyone concidered the virtue of a real-time rogue-like combat system over turn based?

Rather than waiting 10 seconds for the player to act, let them swing their sword. Then don''t let them swing it again, or use any other physical weapon for a period. Say six seconds.

During this time, however, they are still able to cast a spell (if they can). Once the spell is thrown however, they have to wait a set period of time, say eight seconds, before they can cast a spell again.

Should they not slash/cast when the six/eight seconds are up, fine, they can wait as long as they like. Once they do act, however, the count restarts before they can act again.

Each delay is of course modifiable by the ability of the character. A character who has mastered the sword only gets a 4-second delay, whilst one who has barely grasped the sword, is stuck with 8 seconds.



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I''m having mixed feelings about Evil Islands, a game that just hit the shelves this morning (4/18/01). I took back my copy of Quake III and traded it (and another 21 dollars) for Tribes 2, which didn''t even run on my system. So, I took that back and traded it for five dollars and Evil Islands.

The game is sort of bizarre. It reminds me very much of a single-player MMORPG. That is to say, the combat system is nearly identical to that of any MMORPG, except that it implements dwarfsoft''s mention about attacking specific body parts. (There are other parts of Evil Islands that remind me of MMORPG''s, but I won''t discuss them here.) Strangely enough, like any MMORPG, I hate the game.

Fifthcore: You apparently didn''t read the rest of my post. And Chrono Trigger does not allow you to move your characters around the battlefield.

DM and dwarfsoft: I didn''t say you had to wait ten seconds during every player''s turn. The time limit for you to select an action is ten seconds, which means if you finish your turn in two, then your turn is done in two seconds. I thought that was implied.

Also, dwarfsoft, you misunderstood. I didn''t say combat should be exactly like Diablo II, which I whole-heartedly agree is fairly boring. I was implying that the perspective would be the same. It would have been better had I said "Ultima Online with turn-based combat." Sorry about the confusion.

Thanks for the criticism, guys. Despite your recommendations, I''m still going to try out this turn-based combat idea to see if it can be implemented as well as I hope. We''ll just have to wait and see.

Tom. Good luck prototyping your system. I think the same way. Even if others don''t agree I have to try something if I think it will work and prove myself right or wrong. I haven''t played any MMORPG''s so I can''t comment on the combat system, but maybe you''ll prove everyone wrong and create a terrific combat system.

--
Todd
http://www.3dcgi.com/

Hey,

I don''t really see whats wrong with either EverQuest or Asheron''s Call, I thought they were very fun games. Far better, in my opinion, then the FF series.

And if you want a REALLY good MMORPG, get Ultima Online: Second Age, it is totally brilliant.

Gabriel Stuart,
President and CEO,
Argyle Entertainment

argyle_entertainment@yahoo.co.uk

Website coming soon.

Whilst UO, EQ, and AC are heading in the right direction, none of them is anywhere near as good as they could be. When MMORPGs are like "Midkemia" from Tad William''s "Otherland" novels, only then will I be satisfied.

Until then, we must continue to push back the boundaries, and existing conceptual limits of what can be done.



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