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Original post by Al Gorithm [ the ] view [ that games are ] a children's plaything

Here's a question: Is something any less art because it is a children's plaything? For example, are The Hobbit and The Chronicles of Narnia any less art because they were written for children?

I think games can be considered art, as it takes more than science to create a good game. Obviously games contain artistic elements; the 3D modeling, texturing, animation, sound effects are considered art. Clever programming can be considered art, just as clever math, or physics or engineering. Creating fun and novel game play can be considered an art too. So for these reasons I think games can be considered an art form. However, that does not really mean much, as almost anything can be turned into an art form.

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Original post by Quat I think games can be considered art, as it takes more than science to create a good game. Obviously games contain artistic elements; the 3D modeling, texturing, animation, sound effects are considered art. Clever programming can be considered art, just as clever math, or physics or engineering.

I agree, but I think it's funny that this is basically like saying, "It takes more than science to do good science" or "It takes art to do good science". Of course, I also believe it takes more than art to do good art.

To Way Walker:

I'll respond to your other post when I have time to think about it - I'm at work - but at the moment I'm curious what works of art in other mediums have had the most significance for you, enlightened you, and challenged you into a new understanding of things. Would you mind telling me what they are?

Here are mine:

Music: Fur Alina - Arvo Part
Painting: Master Bedroom - Andrew Wyeth
Sculpture: Pieta - Michaelangelo
Literature: The Idiot - Fyodor Dostoevsky
Drama: Hamlet - William Shakespeare
Film: Mirror - Andrei Tarkovsky
Interactive Art: ...none yet

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Original post by JimDaniel To Way Walker: I'll respond to your other post when I have time to think about it - I'm at work - but at the moment I'm curious what works of art in other mediums have had the most significance for you, enlightened you, and challenged you into a new understanding of things. Would you mind telling me what they are? Here are mine: Music: Fur Alina - Arvo Part Painting: Master Bedroom - Andrew Wyeth Sculpture: Pieta - Michaelangelo Literature: The Idiot - Fyodor Dostoevsky Drama: Hamlet - William Shakespeare Film: Mirror - Andrei Tarkovsky Interactive Art: ...none yet

There are more, but I'll just choose one for each:

Music: Where the Green Grass Grows - Tim McGraw
Painting: The Blue Poles - Jackson Pollock
Sculpture: Chicago Picasso - Pablo Picasso
Literature: Till We Have Faces - C.S.Lewis
Drama: Proof - David Auburn
Film: Citizen Kane - Orson Welles
Interactive Art: Untitled(?) - Felix Gonzalez-Torres
Game: Monopoly - Charles Darrow
Video Game: Tetris - Alexey Pazhitnov
Photograph: Water Towers - Bernd and Hilla Becher
Poem: The Raven - Edgar Allen Poe
Building: Transamerica Pyramid - William Pereira

Games are art!

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Original post by Anonymous Poster Games are not art.

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Original post by Tesseract Games are art!

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Original post by Way Walker I'm so confused. [headshake]

once I heard a professor say: "Technicaly everything created by human beings is art, but good or extraordinary art should be considered as the real artwork we like to call art"
And yes, in this definition games are art.

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Original post by HJvK once I heard a professor say: "Technicaly everything created by human beings is art, but good or extraordinary art should be considered as the real artwork we like to call art" And yes, in this definition games are art.

According to that definition nuclear waste, CO₂ and holes in the ground are art. I'll just adapt Wikipedia's definition "Art is a result of human creativity which has some perceived quality beyond its usefulness, usually on the basis of aesthetic value or emotional impact." I would argue games are creative, at least some are, and they have an emotional impact on some. So I'd classify them as art, but according to a different definition I might not. We can't settle this question until we come up with a definition, which we probably won't.

One thing I'm amazed I haven't seen in this thread is a link to Donald Knuth's excellent article on what art means and why programming is still an art (I know we aren't talking about programming, but people also disagree whether programming is an art).

[Edited by - CTar on January 3, 2007 1:16:49 PM]

I think its really very simple. Games *can* be art, just as music, film, books and the classic art forms can be.

Classic art -- painting, sculpture, drawing, etc, is nearly by definition "art" through and through.

Artistic mediums such as books, film, music and games incorporate the notion of entertainment alongside artistic merit. In any of these mediums its possible to tip the scale greatly towards one side or the other or to incorporate both extremes extensively. A movie like Unacompanied Minors is very much an entertainment experience. While it has artistic merit in its concept and execution, its not artistic in the same way that Gone With the Wind is. The same comparison can be made of Moby Dick vs. a dime-store romance novel, Bethoven vs. Nsync, or Ico vs. Mario Kart.

Not all books, films and music posess the same level of artistry and the same is true of video games. I think its more a matter of when a game will come along that will be recognized for its artistic merits - much like early film.


I also hear the arguement that the interactivity of games precludes the possibility of artistic merit (Roger Ebert, I'm looking at you!) However, I would point out that much of the best art encourages interation in the form of interpretation and that there is a signifigant movement of modern, interactive art often driven though computers.