Well, the title pretty much says it. Do you think MSVC is a very successful endeavor into designing an IDE and user interface in general, or simply a concealed means of monopolizing the market that overshadows products of higher quality and creates the _illusion_ it is the best?

Normally I''m anti-M$ but MSVC++ is the best IDE I''ve ever seen

After that KDevelop is the best since it looks so much like VC++

I think msvc++ is THE ide...at least for my needs it perfect..

I think it''s cool and I also think it''s about time they screw it up too...

YAP-YFIO,
deadlinegrunt

It amazes me that some people hate a company so much that when they produce a good piece of software it is considered unfair and creating a monopoly.
It''s an excellent product, and if it''s the best selling then it deserves it. That still doesn''t stop other people making better versions if they want to, but the fact that they have the best doesn''t make a monopoly.

quote:

---

Original post by Anonypous Moster
It''s an excellent product, and if it''s the best selling then it deserves it. That still doesn''t stop other people making better versions if they want to, but the fact that they have the best doesn''t make a monopoly.

---

Technically speaking, it sold well because if you were writing anything for Windows you couldn''t wait six months (or more which was usually the case) for other vendors to bring their products up to specs with Microsofts extensions. Granted their latest IDE is really a robust package, it hasn''t always been. The reason those "other" companies aren''t there anymore are the same reason Microsoft doesn''t have any "serious" competition on other fronts. (That''s flame bait waiting to happen) And while the IDE is great now, it''s compiler still stinks. Oh well, life''s unfair, take advantage of it...


YAP-YFIO,
deadlinegrunt

I use VC++ 6.0 a lot, but I think the text editor sucks, there''s no good, clean way of viewing 2 or more files at the same time - meaning having 2 files open side-by-side, I know you can do this in VC++, but it''s too much hassle, and you can just tell that the program wasn''t designed with this in mind. And serious coders would tend to agree that there''s never enough screen space, and that sometimes you just gotta look at multiple files at the same time on the same screen.

An example of how this feature should be implemented - Emacs

flame on...

quote:

---

And serious coders would tend to agree that there''s never enough screen space...[/qoute]

Just have to jack up your resolution man!

---

Microsoft is in a unique position to declare anything they do a standard, say they are the first to support the standard and have people accept those statements at face value. With anyone else that would be called proprietary. If you said you were the first to support a standard everyone would point out that you were the only one to support it and as such it wasn''t really a standard. That is what Microsoft owes half it''s success to. The other half is recognizing that all people see is the pretty little interface. Personally I feel Microsoft does best at identifying and implementing other people''s good ideas. The IDE you see, though distinct from, is due to Borland and others that had GUI IDEs while Microsoft was still just supplying a command line compiler. It is also worth noting that at that time they didn''t even use their own product for internal development yet they still managed even then to have the majority of the market share.

That ability to sell a product based upon a name rather than quality gives them a critical mass. That steady stream of income allows them to put more and more into a product while their competetitors are starved for cash. I would certainly hope that they eventually develope a better product. Regardless of what I think if Microsoft and Bill Gates as a software company I will grant that they are one of the most ruthless and effecient businesses in the world. They do leverage the boon of their name into eventually producing an excellant product. The degree to which they suck at innovation and how totally they dominate markets worries me as to what happens when the business environment no longer demands of them to produce a better product. If they have no competitors then what incentive do they have to improve a product rather than milk it for profits.

You should never forget that if you write any software then you are a competitor to Microsoft. Throughout the appelate hearings on Microsoft they called their standards open because they LET you write programs for their system. They tolerate you because they have yet to displace you, i.e. the time is not right. I am rather curious what will happen to DirectX once the XBox is out. Will the DirectX API allow you to develope games that are equal or better than the XBox five years from now? If they make a royality on every XBox game and nothing on a DirectX game then what do you really think that answer will be? Do you think they are producing an XBox because they want to enter the game console market and sell hardware or because they view it as a means to dominate a multi-billion dollar software market? Give them five years, ten at the most and you will either be their partner in game development or you will be out of business. It is the continual march of the lemmings that will make that possible for them. It isn''t the quality of their product, but rather the stupidity of their competitors who also happen to be their customers. Give them a critical mass and they no longer need you. If you were them would you sell your customer a product that made it easy for them to compete effectively with you? Keep their competitors alive and you don''t have to worry what happens to you as a developer when there is only one place to buy your development tools. OpenGL will drive them to improve DirectX, Borland and Watcom will drive them to improve Visual Studio. Don''t look at disdain at their competition because you can thank their competition for everything you see in their products.

quote:

---

Original post by SomeCodeGuy


I use VC++ 6.0 a lot, but I think the text editor sucks, there''s no good, clean way of viewing 2 or more files at the same time - meaning having 2 files open side-by-side, I know you can do this in VC++, but it''s too much hassle, and you can just tell that the program wasn''t designed with this in mind.

---

I completely agree. I loved MSVC so much until I decided to try developing some stuff for BeOS. While the BeIDE isn''t the most full-featured package, the multi-window approach and small amount of desktop estate really makes coding easier. Also, the BeOS GUI is better suited to handling many windows on-screen at once. Microsoft is clearly beaten in this respect I think, but it doesn''t matter... It''s not as if BeOS is going to dethrone MS..

Oh well, I can wish can''t I?

--------------------------
I guess this is where most people put a famous quote...
"Everything is funnier with monkey''''s" - Unknown