Encouraging character growth with something other than levelling or skilling. Why not goal based bonuses? A player will have a goal (or more than one). This can be mini-quests, personal goals generated at character creation, even a preset plot if necessary. On the way to the goal are obstacles of increasing difficulty. As the player experiences more things related to the goal, they acquire bonuses ot their skills when delaing with that goal (and only when dealing with that goal). Example: Orcs threaten a village. Player has a goal to stop the orcs (I realize other goals may be more fun, but take this as a given for the example). There may be several different ways to go about stopping the orcs. This isn''t meant to be a discussion about methods, though, becuase no matter which paths are available, the player should expect a series of obstacles of ever increasing difficulty. Instead of giving the player a bonus for unrelated tasks (random fedex quest) or repeated mindless tasks, give them a bonus related to the goal at hand. If the player researches orcs in the library, they get a bonus point. If they view the remains of a caravan that suffered an orc attack, give them a point. If they confront an orc, give them a point, even if they run away. If they spy on the orcs, give them a point. Eventually, these bonus points will add up enough for the player to complete the task, however he chooses. The bonuses are tied with the goal, so anything earned on the orc subplot is not used when working on a separate subplot. Dealing with an orc menace doesn''t help you much with finding someone''s lost dog, for example. This helps prevent scumming for points. Since the nature of the bonuses are tied to specific actions (encountering an orc, etc), those actions do not need to be fixed in a rigid plotline. The player doesn''t have to spend time spying on the orc camp if he doesn''t feel he needs to. But since the bonuses are tied to plot-like events, the player is encouraged to behave in a way similar to movie or book plots. I also suggest awarding one general permanent point for each major subtask being completed. This would be a permanent increase and apply to all future tasks - to give the player a feeling of growth. No, it''s not realistic. But it does make sense in a plot development kind of way. And if people can swallow the current murder based experience, they shouldn''t have any serious problem with this.

Honestly, if you have to award points to get the character to do something, then it must not be a very enjoyable task. Is not the reward the experience?

What do points get you? Experience? Is not the experience derived from the knowledge and understanding attained from the event? Is this not the real reward? This knowledge and experience can then be applied to furthering our own self designed goals.

I have not used hit points at all in many of my games. At other times, the number of maximum hit points never increases. The only character growth is in the form of skills. Not only are these skills the primary element of character growth, they are great key mechanisms as well.

Consider this example. There is a network of caves which is only accessible through an underwater entrance. This is a lock mechanism. The player cannot explore this area without performing some task. In this case, the key is the ability to swim.

The key is good, because it is more than just a single key. It opens many doors at once. Any area accessible by swimming can now be accessed by the character. The swim skill is also useful, since it will come in handy in the future. It adds a sense of accomplishment. And, once obtained, it gives the player more freedom. And (taking a lesson from the game designers at Konami,) the skill can also grow. The player can swim well enough to keep alive, but winning a swimming contest is out of the question, without practice.

Also, the refusal to grant increased hit points solves another common problem of game design. Too often in RPGs, for instance, the first enemies encountered are relatively weak, while later enemies are stronger. I think this is a fundamantal flaw in the game design.

How many of us have spent time retutning to earlier dungeons with a complete lack of fear? Surely those Goblins with 13 hit points pose no danger! But what if you still have the same number of hit points as the last time you were here? Now every trip into those dark caves is an adventure!

I think you''re on the right track with the skill idea. But the point system may not be as manageable as it could be. As with everything else, you''ll be rewarded for the thought and effort you invest in your idea. Good luck!

~Jonathon

Another option could be make the bonuses in-game. Upon the completion of a goal or even while the player is in the middle of persuing the goal NPCs or items or something could increate the player''s assets. An NPC may be found that teaches the player some new skill, or an item could be found that gives some new power to the player during the quest or after the quest is completed.


Need help? Well, go FAQ yourself.
What a plight we who try to make a story-based game have...writers of conventional media have words, we have but binary numbers

Well, the idea was to connect character improvement with plot development. Modeling how characters develop in fiction like books or movies. As a player progresses toward a goal, he becomes more knowledgable or determined and so improves in all aspects to help him pursue the goal.

Each goal having its own set of bonuses, and no more than one applying for any action (sometimes none). The bonuses are skill bonuses, and are not permanent.

They take the place of the author or GM fudging things so that the character can do what needs to be done but still remain human at the end. But not forcing the character through a series of tightly scripted requirements.

I added the minor permanent bonus to reflect some permanent growth as a result of experiences, but it could be removed.

It''s another option at least.

Well, the idea was to connect character improvement with plot development. Modeling how characters develop in fiction like books or movies. As a player progresses toward a goal, he becomes more knowledgable or determined and so improves in all aspects to help him pursue the goal.

Each goal having its own set of bonuses, and no more than one applying for any action (sometimes none). The bonuses are skill bonuses, and are not permanent.

They take the place of the author or GM fudging things so that the character can do what needs to be done but still remain human at the end. But not forcing the character through a series of tightly scripted requirements.

I added the minor permanent bonus to reflect some permanent growth as a result of experiences, but it could be removed.

It''s another option at least.

Darn multipost

Edited by - JSwing on February 25, 2001 2:19:13 AM

I think the idea is nice

You guys should play Deus Ex. This is practically the same system it implemented. You''d get skill points by completing objectives related to the task at hand. The more stuff you do relating to that task, the more points you''d get.

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If you assume there is only one path to a goal, then you have only found the path to failure.

I have played it and I''m going to politely disagree. It''s close on the surface, but has a different core strategy.

I''d like the player to be able to take on more than one goal at once, and the bonuses are kept separate for each. Learning about orcs helps you on actions you take to deal with the orcs, but does nothing to help you on a second goal of finding a lost puppy.

In Deus Ex, acquiring the bonus was linked to the goals, but the application was general rather than tied to pursuit of a goal.


The bonuses are not permanent. This helps prevent inflation of the abilities of monsters and characters.

In Deus Ex the player skill improvements were permanent.


They are general bonuses that apply to all skills. You don''t bother to micro manage your skill points - you set up your character''s strengths at the beginning and they stay that way.

This keeps a character concept consistent throught the game, but prevents a specialist from getting stuck. It simplifies balancing (I think).

Deus Ex you to micromanaged the skill point allocation.


The player is in control of the plot. He has a goal, but decides how many intermediate plot points there are, or how the plot develops. Points are assigned to general events, or type of events, rather than fixed triggers.

Because the points are (generally) not permanent, the player is not penalized for taking shortcuts. No missing out on improvements that he will need later.

Deus Ex used triggers at fixed locations, as near as I can tell.


If he gets in over his head, he can retreat - and this simply becomes another plot element in the story for the character to grow stronger from - but only against that particular task or foe.


This isn''t to say Deus Ex was a bad game, just different from what I had in mind.