Hello everyone! First off, some background information about myself: I am currently 16 and in high school (entering my junior year), and have quite a bit of experience in DirectX programming for C++. I have programmed a few demo-like things, but they were more for just seeing if I could get video, sound, music, etc. flowing properly within an application/game [basically it was more of a rudimentary engine]. I have also programmed a few games for other platforms (Gameboy Advanced and the Korean Game-Park 32) which worked for the most part, but were still rudimentary. If anyone's interested, you can see my Game-Park game at http://gp32.sector808.org/gp32devcgc2005/ . It's the one called Mr. Jones. I had made it when I was 14 in under 6 hours (thats why its in the crap games contest :P). But now I wish to create a full fledged game, with a complete story that has a complex and emotionally satisfying plot. I have some kind of basis for the story (for example I want it to be a mixture of sci-fi and fantasy, and I want it to be a 2D RPG, but with shaders to add realism), but I dont have the full story written out. Thats where my questions come in to play: 1) Do most people write-out the complete story, including dialogue, scripts, and most details before they begin to create graphics and begin development, or do most developers create content and such as their story progresses throughout the games development (sort of like a real-time story-code development if you will, where the development team develops the game along with the story at the same time). 2) Where do I start? What do I do? Do I just sit down at my desk and spill out my ideas onto paper? 3) Once one has gotten a story and plot written out, is it possible to complete a game by one's self? I personally will have plenty of time to complete a game, but I was wondering how feasible it is to create a virtual company/team to congregate online and complete a game. 4) I understand how to program games, but I dont understand how they 'work'. I want to know what makes good games, games that move people, games that create emotional bonds between the in game characters and worlds, and the player. What makes people bond to certain characters, and what makes characters... characters? I know I sound pretty naive about how hard it is to create a good game, but thats why I am asking. I understand that most people who make games just go ahead and learn to program without thinking about what makes a game good. It disgusts me when I see those television ads for those universities that state "You WILL make the next BIG game" just by teaching the students how to program. That's not what makes a good game. What makes a good game is creativeness, aesthetics, an excellent and emotionally moving story, and an overall feel of wholeness, a form of sonority with all aspects of the game (mind you this is what I think makes a good RPG, not necessarily a shoot-em up :P). So right now... I'm sitting at my desk with a vague description of a story in my head, wondering how to put it all together to begin to create a game that interactively tells that story. Anyone have any suggestions for reading? General comments? Etc? Sorry if my writing is confusing. I'm not the best student when it comes to grammar :P. Cheers! -Scott

Heh. No worries on the grammar; that's far better than we usually get.

Your biggest problem, as I see it, is that you want to create a large game. RPGs in particular have tons of content these days, and content creation, even for a 2D game, takes a massive amount of time. It's good that you've at least completed projects before, but they're so small that they don't really reflect your ability to take on a larger project. I'd recommend working your way up to the "big project" you want to do. Along the way you'll create a portfolio of finished works, which will be very helpful in convincing people that no really, you are a game developer.

Are you all that good at art or sound? Because if you aren't, you're going to have to pay someone to make the graphics and sound for you. There are very few artists willing to do work on the promise that eventually the game will be sold and they'll get a cut, and those that are are all taken already by much better-established projects. That means that you'll have to get by on programmer art until the project is all but finished, at which point you have a better chance of convincing any passing artists that any time devoted to your project might actually return something. However, that's a ways down the road yet.

But hey - at least you aren't trying to make an MMORPG. :)

Thanks for the reply Derakon!

Yes, I do usually have pretty large aspirations. I can never seem to just be happy with making tetris :P I also do realize that it will take a very, very long time to create content that correctly wraps the story-line, not to mention creating the tools to create the content. I think you're right about working my way up. I think i'll make smaller projects based around my large one (such as a specific part of the game, like a small game that exemplifies the tiling engine that will be used in the large one).

Art wise I am pretty apt as well. I have composed music before (not bad pieces either) and am an artist as well (though not that great). I suppose if I do create visual content myself, I will be spending more hours perfecting my pixel-art than actual content production for the game itself :P I suppose I could put in rudimentary art, like you said, until I get a better artist to either help me for free, or for joint-profit if I choose to sell my game.

Thanks again for the advice!

Cheers!

-Scott

Dyamios,

First specific answers:

1. I believe that it helps tremendously to know where you're going. When you know where you're going, there's no stress on whether you'll be able to fill in the blanks. Any inspirations that struck later can still be implemented. Especially if you have a total plan, you know immediately if it would fit the rest of the game.

2. This is something that you have to discover for yourself, get to know yourself. I like to think in the shower and in trains and then write it down as soon as possible. But I can ussually also just sit down and start.

3. I have a bad experience with teams when I was in highschool. Nobody's getting paid so the chance of someone losing interest is greater. Yet, if you can make it work, even for a while, it's a great experience. Online teams is something that I've never tried so I can't help you there.

4. Very good question that is hard to answer. Many good games don't have emotional bonds to characters in the game, but that seems to be what interests you. To learn what makes characters interesting I can mostly recommend creative writing lessons (I bet there's free guides on the net). Yet what makes a good game? I don't know and I'm learning every day. I got to this forum to learn more. I read escapistmagazine.com I talked to experienced theater writers. And most importantly I reviewed games I liked and tried to analyse "why do I like this? What did they do? What could they've done better".

Now about your ambition...
If you can make an enjoyable 'full fledged' game that entertains for 30 minutes, I will applaud you. You can have an emotionally satisfying experience in that time.

Photopia http://www.the-underdogs.info/game.php?id=824 is the perfect example of a 30 minute deep emotional experience. Yes, I admit, that's interactive fiction rather than a game. But it's something a game could have been built around.

If you do choose to go down the 30 minute road, I am willing to offer my services as a writer/game designer for as much time as I can find.

Thanks for the intriguing and helpful reply Dunam!

I like your ideas on planning most of the game out before hand, and thus being able to implement ideas that come to mind later with ease. Too many times I have a tidal wave of ideas that get jumbled in my head, and I forget half of them.

Team wise, locally there are literally no other people that are interested in what i'm doing. Most of my friends just think it would be "cool" to make a game, but they dont really know half of what it takes to make them (not to mention no knowlege of anything technical). So if I ever do make a team, I'd have to wait until either college (which I imagine I would have more success, as people don't move around in college for 3 or 4 years), or attempt to make a virtual team on the internet (which I have had unsuccessful experiences with).

I do find myself apsiring to make a game with a strong, grandeur story rather than an epic-action packed shoot-em up (but I do like action in RPG's too). I want to be able make moments and feelings that people get in movies like lord of the rings, when a main character dies (causing the audience to feel deeply saddened and emotionally 'excited' if you will) or when a main problem has been defeated (like at the end of the third movie, where sam and frodo are sitting on the mount doom after destroying the ring) and the feeling of relief and strength that comes with it. I also want players to create an emotional bond to the game itself (I find that I do this with various games, such as Albion,by Blue Byte software, where I actually feel like I 'miss' the game after playing it, and the same goes with movies).

How im going to do this is going to take some research.

Thanks again for the reply Dunam! Thanks for the offer to help too! If I need help on game design or anything of the sort, i'll be sure to send you a message!

Cheers!

-Dyamios

This is certainly a touchy subject and you will get a wide variety of replies from people, but it's only suggestions and in the end you'll have to decide. You should know ahead of the time that most of these comments aren't exactly "expert", and neither is mine, but here it goes anyway:

For me, every now and then I have a rabid lust to create a game, but it passes so quickly that I barely get anything done. It's not so much a lack of focus or concentration, it's just a spur that ends relatively fast. In response to this I started making design documents. I have a folder full of design documents that I have written up when I get into this craze. I write them until I lose motivation, then I lose the motivation to create the game along with everything else.

So, in my humble opinion your best bet would be to -as you stated- write down and jot some basic ideas, then write up your exact intentions (you can call them "guidelines"), and get started on some basic game design, aka "get something to display on the screen". Although you should have the whole story done before you begin, I think a lot of the time even professional designers switch some parts as the game is being made.

Your third point is very subjective. Are you good working with a group of people? Do you _need_ others to work with you? There are tons of tutorials searchable by google when it comes to making graphics, models, sounds, et cetera. The way I imagine to figure this out is to see how capable you are of doing different things; your breadth in all aspects of making a game. However, a community like GameDev ;) is a great place to find aspiring hobby artists (for example, there's a crapload of pixel artists who are working on little freeware games), and contacting them wouldn't be a problem.

On to your fourth point; once again very subjective. Not everyone feels the same way about a game, but that's the obvious part. I am assuming you want a large portion of your audience to capture what you're getting across. This is best done through sounds and visual effects (read: how 'submerged' you can get those people into your game). The way that they interface with the game is also very important. You should see (if you haven't) games like Postal, Super Columbine Massacre RPG, etc. for people's reactions (mainly negative because all those stuck-up people can't ease off and enjoy a game).

And finally, further reading. Although I haven't, when you create games over and over again you'll see patterns in the way that you code them emerge. These are simply called "Design Patterns". What you should google up is "Game Design Patterns". There's a few articles on sites like gamasutra, GameDev even, et cetera. They will help you overcome the most common problems when it comes to game design.

GameDev "Design Patterns" Section: http://www.gamedev.net/reference/list.asp?categoryid=237

And also read the book written by the "Gang of Four" called Design Patterns: Elements of Reusable Object-Oriented Software.

I suggest you download a few abandonware games (YES MODERATORS THIS IS A LEGAL SITE :) ) from www.abandonia.com; titles such as Flashback, BlackThorne (mainly action games, but what the hey), and see what influences you to keep playing them and what makes you not want to play them. You can already see how "focused" you get into a game. Making a full-fledged game, on the other hand, will require a lot of dedication and willpower. I know this because that's another reason why I haven't made as many games as I would like to have by now :).

You can read a few postmortems on gamasutra but these are way off the richtor scale. I read a few but I lost interest because they cover team management way beyond scope of hobbyists.

To your point regarding people who go about making games without thinking about what makes a game good. Those people should be shot, they are death to the games industry. In the end, I agree with you about those commercials. I am also pissed off about ads such as "Like playing games? Why Not Make Them!". It's pure bullshit to think that playing a game is even visually (yes, literally :P) close to making one -- from a coder's point of view.

Anyone who wishes to agree/disagree with me, you're more than welcome to.

Quote:

Original post by Dyamios ... But now I wish to create a full fledged game, with a complete story that has a complex and emotionally satisfying plot. I have some kind of basis for the story (for example I want it to be a mixture of sci-fi and fantasy, and I want it to be a 2D RPG, but with shaders to add realism), but I dont have the full story written out. Thats where my questions come in to play: ... So right now... I'm sitting at my desk with a vague description of a story in my head, wondering how to put it all together to begin to create a game that interactively tells that story. ... -Scott

It sounds like your experience and strengths are technical, and you're mostly concerned with the writing or creative aspects of your game. In my opinion, too many people think being able to program a game means they are qualified to write a game (in terms of story, characters, etc). Thankfully, you're giving it some thought first. I'm coming at the problem from the other direction, with a creative background and struggling with the technical aspect. Teaming up with somebody else isn't necessarily the answer though, as I believe there is wisdom to be found in attempting to hack things out on your own.

In any event, I think editing is a practice that's frequently overlooked by people new to creative writing. As far as "ideas," I tend to write down anything I can think of. Don't trust yourself to remember all of your random story fragments. So, in my opinion, your point 2) is right, but the hard part is going back to it later and cutting out or reworking the rough parts. Not everything you put down is going to be gold (be wary of cliches!). Take a step back and try to look objectively at what's good and what needs improvement. This can be difficult, but friends or family can also help you (if they give you honest opinions).

On whether a game can be completed by one person: Mine isn't done yet but I sure hope so. I'm sure you could find a local team if you tried. This area must be a hotbed with Full Sail and EA in the vicinity (I live in Apopka).

As far as making a game that moves people emotionally, take a critical look at games that have had an impact on you, analyze them and try to figure out why you had that strong reaction. What concepts do you respond to? Discovery, revenge, love, desperation? Also, the greatest examples of stories humans have are written down as novels. In my opinion, if you really want to develop a strong story, look at some classics of literature. Then bring your critical mind to bear on what you liked or didn't like about a book, and try to incorporate the ideas you respond to in your own writing.

On a side-note, one aspect of game writing I find to be almost universally terrible is character dialogue (bad dialogue remains bad even with good voice acting). When you write dialogue, by all means say it back out loud. If it sounds stupid, then rephrase it the way you might normally say it.

Good luck!

Thanks guys for the replies!

Hunterb, you have some very good points. Yesterday I started writing down my ideas and sketched out some quick concepts. So far I think I've got the backbone to the story, but it needs some refining (it resembles a book my brother has read too much).

I was going to buy a book about character dialogue (about the do's and don'ts, and how to make it convincing), but I still haven't got around to it. Too many times I see horrible dialogue as well, and it rips me out of the "sucked-in" feeling while playing games.

I actually lived in Apopka most of my life (right next to wekiva springs). So many memories there =P

Thanks again guys,

Cheers!

In my humble opinion, you shouldn't need a book on dialogue. Most people engage in actual conversation on a daily basis, and have the ability to discern what sounds real and what sounds fake. Better than reading a book I think would be sitting in a public place and listening to other people's conversations. Listen to what people say and how they say it. It's kind of surprising how often people speak in fragments, interrupt each other, etc, but remain completely understood.

Good luck and keep everybody posted on your progress. I'd be interested to see what you come up with.

Thanks man! Yeah, you're probably right. I do enjoy people-watching a lot. I suppose next time I do I should analyze the way people speak naturally, and try to emulate it in my dialogue. I also want to figure out how a person's personality affects the way they speak as well. I can just imagine people's reactions when they see me about 10 feet away holding a notepad, scribbling things down as they speek, occasionally looking over at them =P. In any case, it will be fun.

I'll be sure to keep you posted, and once I get far enough, I will post news on my site: http://www.Aethiron.com/

Cheers!