Is it in any way likely to find a job in the games industry without a degree? Specifically I am interested in finding an entry-level programming job in the Seattle area. I am going to be relocating to the Seattle area next month and am hoping to get into college out there soon. I was wondering if it would be a good idea to look around for jobs in the area to get a bit of industry experience before school, or if I should just find a job in another field before school instead. I do have quite a bit of programming experience, but no college credit under my belt. I also have some game programming experience on several open-source projects and engines. I do not expect to find some great job without a degree, but I am more looking for anything in the industry to at least get a foot in the door. Any advice would be helpful.

Aero wrote:

>Is it in any way likely to find a job in the games industry without a degree?

No. The likelihood is quite low.

>I was wondering if it would be a good idea to look around for jobs in the area to get a bit of industry experience before school, or if I should just find a job in another field before school instead.

How impressive a collection of demos do you have in your portfolio?

>I do have quite a bit of programming experience, ... I also have some game programming experience on several open-source projects and engines.

Why didn't you say that before? If you have an impressive resume and a spectacular demo, then you don't need no stinking degree.

Good luck,
Tom

Thanks for the advice Tom, that is exactly what I was looking for. I can put together a portfolio that may give me a good chance at a job. I was just concerned with how important a degree is in this field.

The degree is a tool for risk assesment. It shows you have the dilligence to stick through a long term activity, not all of which will interest the average person. Sure, you'll learn some things on the way but the majority of the knowledge a game developer has is usually self-taught. I don't know about any of these new-fangled 'games degrees' (only CS or SE when I were a lad). The precise nature of the degree isn't really that important either. I've met developers with an assortment of odd degrees (from math to chemistry), coupled with a good demo (which tends to be required if you have a degree or not), it can be a help to get in. That said, with a good demo and a good attitude it's not essential.

win: "The degree is a tool for risk assesment. It shows you have the dilligence to stick through a long term activity"


Yes, and "work experience and a solid demo" also show this.

I had noticed in other CS fields that work on open-source projects isn't really held in the highest esteem by many employers. Basicaly what you are saying is that work experience doesn't necissarily have to be paid work experience?

Aerohead wrote:

>Basicaly what you are saying is that work experience doesn't necissarily have to be paid work experience?

I don't know who you're talking to, but if you're talking to me, I am absolutely NOT saying any such thing. "Work experience" means PAID work experience. Period. Unpaid experience does not count as work experience.

If you have reasonably applicable paid work experience for 4 years or more, and a spectacular demo disc, you don't need a degree. If you have unpaid experience, and a spectacular demo disc (I said spectacular, meaning more impressive than most), your demo might get you the job without a degree - but you have no right to say you have work experience. Building that demo doesn't count as work experience.

Just trying to be clear on my terms here, so folks aren't putting words that I never said into my mouth.

Quote:

Original post by tsloper "Work experience" means PAID work experience. Period. Unpaid experience does not count as work experience.

Just want to second Tom on this. I work on the music end of things and have seen resumes go right into the trash because people tried to portray free or school projects as professional work experience.

Yes, don't try to sell it as industry experience. Personal projects have definitely been a foot in the door for me in the past--in particular, when it turns out the company is actually USING a tool you developed--but another thing employers are looking for is the ability to thrive in a team environment working to spec, which is something open source software generally does not provide. (If you're the lead maintainer of Apache, maybe things are different. [wink])

>>Specifically I am interested in finding an entry-level programming job in the Seattle area.

Seattle is a huge game/software area. Sorry but you wont get an entry-level programming job. Maybe try to get into game testing. Maybe having programming experience along with a small portfolio might up your chances on getting into that.