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Original post by Iron Chef Carnage I'm apprehensive about that idea. First, the aesthetic end of it will be gruesomely cheated when every newbie makes a lousy weapon that looks like it was forged from the love of angels, and the player's inventory will soon be filled with crap that looks like spun crystal. Second, the attributes will inevitably result in a few combinations that will be exploits. They will wreck the game, like the "level-up spells" do in Morrowind. My Morrowind character can leap tall buildings in a single bound and defeat armies of Deadra with his bare hands. If you patch it out, people will just not install that patch. The only way to avoid that problem is to pre-emptively nerf the crap out of everything in the game, so that the weapons will be almost indistinguishable from one another, except in the gaudy, crappy appearances that players choose for them.

if all the good weapons are equals, and there isn't a single ultimate weapon I don't see the problem with that. I've seen a similar system implemented in Shadowbane and it works fine.

Hammer gives more stun ability,
bow reduces defences,
dagger reduces opponent's attack rating,
axe has reduce defence and 1 stun,
sword ... is practically useless though (unloved child).

But if all weapons are equals, then the sophisticated crafting and weapon property system is unnecessary, except for vanity. Why not just have one archetypal version of each weapon class and put a continuum of quality on it, from -10 to +10, in order to diversify the field?

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Original post by Iron Chef Carnage But if all weapons are equals, then the sophisticated crafting and weapon property system is unnecessary, except for vanity. Why not just have one archetypal version of each weapon class and put a continuum of quality on it, from -10 to +10, in order to diversify the field?

similarly, if all classes are equal(balanced) why differ them into classes? Idea is like the above, some weapons have higher damage but slow attack, are heavier and gives agility penalty because it's harder to navigate.

I should rephrase to "all weapons are divided into teirs, each weapon on each teir should be somewhat equivalent in quality with diverse in attributes (boon, damage, speed, weight, durability, weapon-type)".

in addition "no weapon should have infinite durability, if a weapon's durability reaches 0, it is automatically destroyed. Each weapon has 2 sets of durability rating; current durability/maximum durability (adapted from Shadowbane + Diablo). Repairs will return weapon to its maximum durability, but depending on the skill of the blacksmith the maximum durability of a weapon will suffer, the minimum durability loss is 1."

proabably add "each weapon's damage, attack speed, attack rating, and style is dependent on the weilder's skill. This is to stop weilder from keep changing different types of weapons."

"each weapon has 3 different types of damage, namely: piercing, slashing and bloughning(sp? blunt weapons), some weapons like swords can deal 2 different types of damages but their damage may differ - like sword can deal 100% of maximum damage with slashing, 70% of maximum damage with piercing and 0% with blunt"

we can compliment this with crafting. Say, higher teir weapons have lower % of sucess, regardless of if you got the ingredients right. Thus it is harder to figure out the right formula. Highest teir weapons must consist of several unique materials that must be found from the game world (say special mob drop or something). Cost of making weapons should be roughly 20% higher than NPC vendor's purchase. E.g. a 120g cost sword will have a 100g sell price.

I also like the idea of weapon history, but while the idea is brilliant we should take into account the number of weapons that exist in a game world, and to keep account for each of them will take a huge toll on the server.

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Original post by Takaloy I also like the idea of weapon history, but while the idea is brilliant we should take into account the number of weapons that exist in a game world, and to keep account for each of them will take a huge toll on the server.

true. hopefully advancements in technology and software will overcome this.

On another track, I always liked FF7's materia system where you can customize your weapon depending on the circumstances. I would rather carry around 1 weapon and manage materia than have several swords for different battles. As a limiting factor, make changing the materia take some time to avoid frequent switching in the middle of a battle. If possible, limit the number of non attached materia that can be carried at one time. (say the materia needs always needs a host ,living or nonliving, otherwise they explode/degrade) special skills can increase the player's tolerance to materia so they can carry more materia) Perhaps a special materia type (Orb of Fate) to handle the history of the weapon? weapons with the Orb lose 1 materia slot permanently but gains the ability to morph (dunno if we should allow continous morphing or just 1 time) depending on the actions of the owner/s. Theis would enable the game to limit the number of History weapons. If a Historical weapon gets destroyed a new ORb of Fate is generated somewhere. Add the condition that not using the Orb/Historical weapon will cause the orb to disappear to avoid a guild/player hoarding all the Weapons/Orbs and not using them.

I also think weapons whould have reltively limited damage potential. The damage inflicted would rely more on the players attributes and materia. A master swordsman with a stick can deal more damage than a newbie with a Master sword because while the sword has more damage potential, the newbie does not have enough skill to effectively use it, the newbie might deal up to 25% of the sword's damage potential. The master can fully utilize the stick's potential+add some damage due to his attributes but the problem would be the stick will break after a few hits since it is lower quality. adding Takaloys example, say the blunt damage depends on your more strength, slice damage depends on skil +strength, pierce depends on skill. high strength,low skill players will be better suited to clubs to maximize blunt damage but have little pierce/slice damage. materia can offset some weaknesses.

The problem with the above idea is the newbies will be weaker than ever. At least in current systems a newbie with a good set of weapons (by buying/etc) can have more of a chance with high level players.

"I also like the idea of weapon history, but while the idea is brilliant we should take into account the number of weapons that exist in a game world, and to keep account for each of them will take a huge toll on the server"

Actualy, isn't this how they do it now. In WoW each weapon can be slightly customized (enchants) by the player and so each weapon needs to be kept track of.

"But if all weapons are equals, then the sophisticated crafting and weapon property system is unnecessary, except for vanity. Why not just have one archetypal version of each weapon class and put a continuum of quality on it, from -10 to +10, in order to diversify the field?"

Equally balanced does not mean identical stats. A sword that is good against one type of armour but bad against another type of armour could be balanced by a weapon that is bad against the first, but good against the second type of armour. They are balanced, but not identical in use, so both become needed.

The quality could be dependant on the crafter's crafting skill. A better crafter will be able to make better quality products. You could have power of enchantments on an item be based on the quality of the weapon. So, a better quality weapon would have (or be able to gain) more powerful enchant effects.

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Original post by Edtharan Actualy, isn't this how they do it now. In WoW each weapon can be slightly customized (enchants) by the player and so each weapon needs to be kept track of. .

it's different trying to keep track of history and customising different weapon enchantments. Enchantments can be delimited by int, or a fixed size value thus each weapon's memory space consumption on the stack is more or less predictable and fixed.

assume, for history of each weapon, you have to keep a log of 'history'. this can be very unpredictable in size, of memory and hard-disk consumption. and, say this sword killed 99 Orcs and 100 goblins. So is it going to be a goblin slayer or orc slayer? what happens if I happen to kill 2 more orcs?

Assuming I want to save space and not keep logs of each weapon, some hackers might expose some loop hole in the game to produce an instant superior weapon etc...

I am using a system in a NWN mod where the players can gain control over an area. There are several teams and I can not know in advance how many there will be. This is like your problem with tracking kills. I have solved this even with having just 2 tracking stats.

It works like this:
TrackingStat: An integer that represents the magnitude of event that suport this faction
Faction: This is the curent focus of the tracking.

Certain event will cause the TrackingStat (I used loyalty) to increase for one faction (in your case it could be the type of monster killed). If another faction (ie: not the curent faction) would get an increase then this equates to a decrease in the curent Faction's TrackingStat.

eg: If you had a sword that had Faction=Orcs and a TrackingStat=5 and the player killed a goblin then the sword would now have Faction=Orcs and a TrackingStat=4.

If the TrackingStat exceeds a certain value then it triggeres an event/flag (in my NWN module it trigers the area to change its loyalty to the player. If the TrackingStat reaches 0 then it looses this event (becmes neutral).

For the sword this event/flag could be weather or not it gains an enchantment (as well as the chance that it does). So if the TrackingStat represented a % chance that an enchantment could occure on the sword and the faction determined what type of enchantment could occure. Once the flag has been tripped then the sword has a chance of gaining an enchantment. If the TrackingStat reaches 0 then it looses the "allow enchantment flag" and the player must work to gain a new "allow enchantment flag".

The actual enchantment when placed on the sword is handeled just like they are now in games. ANd it only needs 2 more variables to be tracked (and both could be intagers), and does not need to be processed each game tick, but only when certain events take place (eg Killing a creature), so it also won't take much processing time either.

Actually the crafting in my game is made into 3-tiers,

1. The crafter makes the item
2. The crafter decides whether to and how to enchant the item
3. The buyer decides whether to and how to enchant the item

Virtually, I feel that each item itself is quite unique in my game, and different players of various classes and even within the same class have different motives for different gears, which drives the item variety and uniqueness at the same time.

Moreover, item quality curves exponentially. The result of this is, you always buy according to your own richness. You earn less you spend less, life is ok. You earn more you cant help but spend more, still life is ok. Thus the economy is very well balanced.

Example; Warlord (knight class)
Basically, warlords build their toons with high INT and ENDurance, with 300INT you meet the basic requirement, with 400INT you'll be an awesome warlord. Without any gear, a lv50 warlord is with around 140INT. So the first thing the warlords are looking for is a decent set of INT gear. On the other hand, a warlord is rather lame in damage dealing, in order to contribute in general mob grinding, a warlord will look for a decent set of STR gear to play the role of a DD knight, he also need to meet the DEX requirement for hitting accuracy.

general mob killing
- heavy polearm with STR/DEX gear.

small~medium boss killing
- bow enchanted with waittime stealth (to reduce waittime for skill launching), plus a set of decent INT gear.

tough boss killing
- heavy polearm (enchanted with INT), and a set of extremely good INT gear.

The tradeoff could actually be more complicated than that, especially when the toon's initial stat is not correctly set.

[Edited by - Hawkins8 on March 20, 2006 3:38:19 AM]

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Original post by Edtharan I am using a system in a NWN mod where the players can gain control over an area. There are several teams and I can not know in advance how many there will be. This is like your problem with tracking kills. I have solved this even with having just 2 tracking stats. It works like this: TrackingStat: An integer that represents the magnitude of event that suport this faction Faction: This is the curent focus of the tracking. Certain event will cause the TrackingStat (I used loyalty) to increase for one faction (in your case it could be the type of monster killed). If another faction (ie: not the curent faction) would get an increase then this equates to a decrease in the curent Faction's TrackingStat. eg: If you had a sword that had Faction=Orcs and a TrackingStat=5 and the player killed a goblin then the sword would now have Faction=Orcs and a TrackingStat=4. If the TrackingStat exceeds a certain value then it triggeres an event/flag (in my NWN module it trigers the area to change its loyalty to the player. If the TrackingStat reaches 0 then it looses this event (becmes neutral). For the sword this event/flag could be weather or not it gains an enchantment (as well as the chance that it does). So if the TrackingStat represented a % chance that an enchantment could occure on the sword and the faction determined what type of enchantment could occure. Once the flag has been tripped then the sword has a chance of gaining an enchantment. If the TrackingStat reaches 0 then it looses the "allow enchantment flag" and the player must work to gain a new "allow enchantment flag". The actual enchantment when placed on the sword is handeled just like they are now in games. ANd it only needs 2 more variables to be tracked (and both could be intagers), and does not need to be processed each game tick, but only when certain events take place (eg Killing a creature), so it also won't take much processing time either.

wouldn't that make "Orc Bane" a "Elf Bane" tomorrow? Doesn't sound right.

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Original post by Takaloy wouldn't that make "Orc Bane" a "Elf Bane" tomorrow? Doesn't sound right.

No, the enchantments would not be erased, just the chance that a particular enchantment could occure. Once an enchantment is placed on a weapon it is handeled exactly like they do in curnet games (like WoW).

You could also use existing enchantments as a prerequsite or be mutualy exclusive for other enchantments. eg: if a sword had Orc bane lv1 enchantment on it then this would then allow an orc bane lv2 enchantment but would never allow any elf bane enchantment on it.