i have only been a new user to gamedev.net, and have only started game designing in the last 2 years or so so my question is, why is everyone so eager to make MMOG? don't get me wrong, i love playing planetside alot, but for small companies and people like me who dream of making one, it just boils down to cost. unless you have investment or have a really neat idea to kick WOW's ass, then i think it is in the realm of pipedream, well for me alone any rate i'd like to hear other peoples opinions on IF MMOG's are a viable idea for small companies with minimal investment to make games

No. There are too many out there already that are very similar. An MMOG takes a good amount of work, more work than most kinds of games, and then there are the costs to keep it running. While I've never made one, I have a good idea of how much work they would take, and I say that it's not worth it. How many people are going to hear of your game and pick it up, anyway? Rather than trying to make a massively multiplayer game, why not just make a multiplayer game? It doesn't require as much work, and doesn't cost nearly as much for you.

It depends on scale.

Want to make a 3D "avatar runs around and kills stuff for XP" RPG MMOG that costs $19.99/month? Forget it - not only are you picking up massive production costs, but you are trying to gain market share already held by some huge players like Blizzard and Sony.

Want to make a MMOG that isn't a hack and slash RPG? With either a very low monthly fee ($9.99 or less) or better yet some kind of "pay only for special features" scheme? You might stand a chance.

Browser based 4E empire building games, low budget but original Second Live style social games (like the recently posted Habbo Hotel), globally ranked social minigames (games like Gunbound would fit into this category - the idea is a more traditional small scale short term multiplayer game, bound into a persistent ranking, social and avatar world) or something untapped, like say a financial competition game (a fork off 4E gaming).

The key is that you will likely not be able to reach the "core" gaming group - the people interested in playing a very narrow type of game with the best possible incrementally better graphics available. If a person has a PS2 or an XBox, they're probably not going to be a good customer for your budget game.

You are targeting casual and/or mature gamers. Typically this means social interaction is a major requirement (to the point that you can almost be running a glorified chat room). Grind gameplay is usually not welcome - these are not the core gamers who get enjoyment out of playing a game for 10 hours straight. This doesn't mean it's all wussy stuff though - the mature crowd can often enjoy games with a lot more depth. They get satification from actually being better at something, not in simply getting a payoff for putting in X hours. Skill based games like Puzzle Pirates work well for this audiance (in fact Puzzle Pirates is a rather good example of a budget MMOG).

As you are not targeting core gamers, graphics will not need to be as good - in fact the opposite is true, you'll likely find your audiance doesn't want to have to buy a video card or upgrade to play. Expect to run well on a 600mhz machine with integrated graphics (which usually means 2D gameplay). Being crossplatform (via Java, Shockwave or web browser) helps a lot too, though is not required.

If you are serious about this, you might also look into the Korean/Asian gamespace - they are several iterations ahead in the development of MMORG style games. Unlike the western world, a million subscribers is nothing new for a Korean MMOG. While they cover the core RPG hack and slash formula, they have already found and expanded into the wider casual gaming space, an area filled with people interested in social gaming. While a culture gap does exist, a lot of the lessons learned by the asian MMOG market could be reapplied in making a casual western MMOG.

Agree'd. The Asian market is saturated with great MMO's, and if I knew, say, Korean, I'd be playing their games instead of WoW.

Is it viable to make a MMORPG that will sell in the US, done by a small company? Maybe. Say you are able to make a game. Then comes the hard part, tweaking, testing, tweaking, servers and lag issues, getting people to quit their current MMO and try yours etc. Making the game takes alot, but an equal or even great amount of effort is spent maintaining the game, especially in the initial first few months after release.

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Original post by Akanaaz Agree'd. The Asian market is saturated with great MMO's, and if I knew, say, Korean, I'd be playing their games instead of WoW. Is it viable to make a MMORPG that will sell in the US, done by a small company? Maybe. Say you are able to make a game. Then comes the hard part, tweaking, testing, tweaking, servers and lag issues, getting people to quit their current MMO and try yours etc. Making the game takes alot, but an equal or even great amount of effort is spent maintaining the game, especially in the initial first few months after release.

It's a smart move for NCsoft to buy off ArenaNet

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Original post by Akanaaz Is it viable to make a MMORPG that will sell in the US, done by a small company? Maybe. Say you are able to make a game. Then comes the hard part, tweaking, testing, tweaking, servers and lag issues, getting people to quit their current MMO and try yours etc. Making the game takes alot, but an equal or even great amount of effort is spent maintaining the game, especially in the initial first few months after release.

It's possible, and I've even designed one that has an estimated launch cost of $25,000, with the hopes of getting 1,000 players all willing to subscribe for $5 a month. 1,000 players is absolutely nothing in the MMO market. However, this is our actual goal, to make the niche game. It will take us about 2 years to create, with everyone working for free, and with graphics that are nowhere near cutting edge. It will be all downloaded, because with no publisher, you can't get any shelf space in any store. With 1,000 players, the game will be able to support itself on a skeleton crew who get paid a small amount to keep the game running. There is no guarantee that players will subscribe. It is very high risk, as investments go.

But it is viable, as long as your expectations are realistic. A small company making a niche MMO for a small group of players can be done for less money. If the intention is to compete with WoW or Lineage, then, not really viable, IMO.

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why is everyone so eager to make MMOG?

Because multiplayer online games are still a relatively new area, I expect, so it's still novel and interesting to try to write one.

Now, I agree that trying to write a MMORPG is unlikely to be a success. Those things have evolved so far that it would be impossible to compete as a one man outfit – a bit like trying to single-handedly write a competitive FPS. But there is plenty of scope for less graphical, more community-based games out there. I know it's possible, I play one – War of Conquest – which apparently pulls in a few thousand dollars a month for its creator, despite being free to play (you can buy extra game credits for money). (It has a lot of influence on the design of my own.)

I think the potential of the MMOG market is in its infancy. I beleive it has the potential to appeal to a much wider audience that may not currently even play many computer games at all.

This is because of the idea of playing with all those other players, instead of just a machine. The problem right now is that it is all based on this leveling up, hacking monsters, etc. where any interaction with other players is usually focused on playing AGAINST them and not WITH them.
Current mechanics find the concept to be so broken that they actually do things that make it less and less an MMO, like instancing, getting rid of PvP completely, creating areas and systems that are only accessed at certain levels, etc. In the end a player is only concerned with their character's stats and their stuff. They can grind up the levels completely on their own and get all they need from spawned gold and item drops and what they can get for that from NPC merchants. Sure you can make the grind so difficult that you HAVE to have a group, but that is just forcing players to work in small groups (still hardly MMO) with the same old goal of powering up their own characters. The interaction of the massive numbers of players could be voluntary in such a way that if they got together and cooperated through complex interactions THEN the game would move in the direction of goals THEY SET THEMSELVES and would CHANGE the game world and even improve it for others of like mind. For those who differ in that view, well THERE we can have conflicts arise in the game, but they will be based on RESONS deeper than: Well, we are all powerful now so we need to kill everyone else. This would be a truly dynamic world where all interactions would be interdependant.

Now if games could go in that direction the industry would EXPLODE and there would surely be a need to design for such dynamic worlds and they could constantly be improved. So, I say why not have you idea ready, or better yet be the FIRST to tap this potential.

It is true many MMO ideas are more of the same, with little tweaks, but I think everyone is a bit facinated with the idea of all those interactions that could create a world on the fly where you could really get right in there and do.......anything. That is a good dream, and all ideas come from dreams.

The failure rate of developing MMOGs by small groups is high. I think we may have focused too much on making a complete game instead of crafting the tools part by part. If we devoted to the different areas and are able to make useful tools which will greatly reduce both the cost and risk of making a mmog.

Modelling and simulation tools we used seem catered for general purpose instead of mmogs. 3D engines and world engines not dedicated to multiple server architecture. As a result, even when a company has like 5M to burn, it wont be fruitful to make a mmog which subsequently make fund-raising difficult.

For example, Dragon Empires managed to gather all the *parts* available yet due to multiple server architecture problem, the game bit the dust. Wish and DnL did have a good world engine but char modeling and simulation didn't look good enough. While sever stability and netcode could still a problem for DnL. Saga of Ryzom also lacks good char modeling and simulation.

EQII and WoW are good because they managed to be able put all the *parts* together in a proper combination, with like XXXX mil. burnt. The competition lays in the technology instead of game contents and game quality. The ones with supreme technology (usually giants with $) win, not necessarily the ones with good game contents and funs. Worse still, you'll see alot of empty promises which cannot be implemented due to money and efforts are put to the technical bottlenecks instead of the game qualities.

In my opinion,
World engine and thus world building - technology mature
3D client engine - mature
net code - not good enough especially for small size devs
char modeling and simulation tools - even giants dont seem to have good tools (including EQII and WoW)
server architecture - not good especially for small size devs

Which means, if more people are going to be more dedicated to exploring into the server architecture, net code and char modeling/simulation for MMOGs and make the technology more open, the less will be the costs and risks for developing an MMOG.