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Original post by swiftcoder Quote: Original post by Multiverse One last thing, if you manage to create a world where hero's truly are special, and non-heros can still have a fun, involving experience, what happens if a player is 'chosen' to be a hero when he want's to carry on being an average joe? Isn't that how it usually happens in real life? At least in the game he has a choice, just let the character molder and create a new one.

I don't consider 'scrapping your hard earned character and restarting from scratch' a very good design element. It would be easier to just give the character the choice. "do you wawnt to ascend into heroism, where you would forfeit all your current belongings, power and (etc) in return for becoming a hero? Or do you want to stay as you are?"

perhaps every character would randomly (throughout their time in the game) be given the choice to become a hero, and can either accept or reject. The hero could then at some point give up their hero status (at a suitably opulent castle/temple/dimension) to become average joe again, and carry over their exp etc. This would actually allow people to experiance all of the game content, and, would allow the game to restrict how many heros were in the game as well, which might be useful for auto-balancing or something.

In my opinion, this is the equivalent of putting a "You're a millionaire" chance card into a monopoly game. Sure, you'd really like to pick that card, but the minute the card shows up, every other players just get bored and quit.

There is also something important to take into account : players paid an equal amount of money to buy your game. Therefore, they should get similar game experience.

You've got to realize the main purpose of videogame is to entertain people. If they choose to be a mere peasant and work harder to do their stuff, fine with them. But if you force them to be, they simply won't like it.

I honestly think randomness should not play such an important role in a game.

End of thought ;)

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Original post by __ODIN__ <snip> Allan

Thanks for pointing out the obvious. I'm trying to stir up conversation to see if there's a way to keep the non-hero characters interested in the game and still allow them to have an important role in the world. And are you saying that because you're older then a 14 year old you're entitled to something extra?



The non-hero character wouldn't necessarily be a servant, he can be a warrior just like the hero and even though it would suck he wouldn't stand a chance in a 1 on 1 duel with a hero character.

Having the hero CLASS wouldn't really make the experience unique. I think the game should be advertised differently from "become one of the chosen"... If a player would buy the game for the sole purpose of being a hero, I'm sure he'd be disapointed... This is what I'm trying to dodge: the "I-want-to-be-a-hero-fever".

The heros weakness is an interesting concept that could be explored.

edit to respond to new posts:

It would have to be made obvious that a hero is rare occurence so that players don't buy the game to play as a hero. They would have to be AWARE that they are a regular character unless told otherwise. If everyone can be a hero, what's the point... I mean it just makes the game the same as every other game.

I suppose there could be some kind of system to allow anyone to become a hero but how could such a system be developped to keep everyone from becoming a hero? An extremely difficult challenge where the odds of success are 1/100 (number pulled out of my arse). A quest that is hidden at a random location that is always different for every character?

I'd really like to avoid the grind-to-be-a-hero problem and I REALLY want to make the hero/non-hero ratio low. I want the regular character to be excited and glad to have a hero on his side when going on an adventure.

I suppose, after all is said and done, MMO's have their 'heros' already. Althought the 'heros' are ones with reputation rather than greater power/strength.

Now that i've thought about it a bit more, who would really care that much if they were considered a 'hero' by a set of algorithms and game rules? "Yay I got lucky and now I'm a 'hero'!" The real heros are the ones who gain reputation and respect from the other people who play the game. People can and do become famous (or infamous) in their online community through great game playing skill or determination. Isn't that one of the reasons MMO's are popular?

Anyway, having said that, if there was a way acheive heroism through what you do in the game, that may be a different matter. If every player has at least an (non random, as Ciment pointed out) opportunity to become a hero, then they could choose whether to make that their goal, or to continue building their non-hero character.

I've thought of a few more things about this, but found myself pondering: "if the idea takes this much effort to think of a way to make it work, maybe it isn't such a good idea after all"

The best ideas are usually the simplest.
Sorry for not having anything more constructive to say about the issue! :P

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Original post by Multiverse <snip>

Hey, good train of thought and one I've believed was true for a long time. But what defines a heroic deed in an MMO when anyone can do the exact same thing? Does helping out a new member count as a heroic deed or just an honourable one?

I do agree that complicated ideas are often bad ideas when it comes to gaming but instead think of it this way: How can we make this idea simple but still unique?

On a side note, I'm not even sure what a hero would do. Maybe he'd just have a different skill set or maybe he'd just unlock a bunch of auras that would affect peeople around him. That wouldn't necessarily make him better but it would make it worth it to have him in the group.

One solution to these difficulties strikes me,

Have the ability to become a powerful Hero be an isolated, temporary, thing. Perhaps in your game world the Gods meddle in the affairs of men and will grant and take power as they see fit. Or maybe there is a powerful artifact in the world which when carried will turn your player into a Hero, but it can only be carried for a limited time, else the character will become corrupted by it, or because the artifact knows it is time to move on to another.

This temporary ability would still be decently long, maybe 3 days (allowing you time to make an impression on the world), and then the ability would leave you to go on to another. Determining who gets the ability could either be done randomly (with perhaps a factor added in for how long you have been playing), or based on some quest (if you could find ways to avoid mass camping of it).

Once you've been a Hero, you cannot be one again for maybe a few months, but in the future it may come back to you.

MMORPGs are fantasy worlds brought to life, but it's still a "world" and nothing more.

Hero is nothing but a status. Think...how many people out of the 6.5 billion people on this planet would you be considered as a hero.

That is a 0.000000001% of the population.

Out of the number of player in a game world, that percentage can only be round to 0. Therefore, no body in MMORPG shall be a hero.

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Original post by lightblade MMORPGs are fantasy worlds brought to life, but it's still a "world" and nothing more. Hero is nothing but a status. Think...how many people out of the 6.5 billion people on this planet would you be considered as a hero. That is a 0.000000001% of the population. Out of the number of player in a game world, that percentage can only be round to 0. Therefore, no body in MMORPG shall be a hero.

... You're right, I guess since there are no space monsters in real life that I can't add them in a game.

NEXT!

Base it on performance. In Halo 2 (Not an MMORPG, but bear with me) you get a level rating that reflects your performance. In an MMORPG, only the top rated players would be "heroes." Of course, the caveat is that you don't get anything automatically overpowering for being a hero - it's a prestige rating of how well you have already performed. So only the top performing players relative to one another (or even a flat standard, preferably) will be heroes at any given time. Heroes can still be beaten by other normal players however - there is no grinding treadmill and awesome power reward.

Naturally, you'd have to now tack on some sort of skill based combat system - you can't have a fair system with grinding, time-sinks, and other lazy game design conventions.

EDIT - Oh, forgot to metion: In this system heroes aren't permanent - your hero status is based on your recent performance and skill and biased by your history (so that minor hiccups in performance don't ruin you). If you are no longer up to par, you go down a rank. Also, you can have levels of heroism - you don't have to be the best to get in, but you still have to be the best to...well...be the best. So, some people will never attain hero rank simply because they aren't very good at the game. The good players will attain hero ranks because they are good. EVERYONE technically CAN be a hero, but the fact of the matter is that not all of your players are going to be good. Set a flat standard, and everyone who meets it is a hero. Set the standard high enough that only the best players get the best ranking, but set the lower levels low enough that most people (except the lazy players or little kids e.g.) can attain a decent ranking, and can improve if their skill improves. No grind, just what you have the ability to do.

Or just make people grind for it. Look at Maple Story. The exponential XP system in that game is nothing short of absurd. By level 50 or so, you have to kill thousands of the toughest monsters available to level, and it takes days, weeks or months per *ding*. A level 85 Dragon Knight in Maple Story is a god.

There are about three, and they all got there by either hacking, macroing or sharing the character, but if you could make a system like that, then sure, there would be legendary heroes among the playerbase.

EVE is tiered this way based purely on seniority. To fly a fully decked-out interceptor, you need about a year worth of directed skill training, and about a hundred million credits' worth of gear. So few players actively train long enough to become that strong, and so there are three tiers of society: Those who have been in the game for less than six months (newbs), those you have been in between six months and two years (players), and the few who have been in for more than two years (badasses). On badass in a light assault frigate can own ten newbs in cruisers. Those guys tend to be seen leading combat squadrons, running corporations and generally in positions of power and influence.