I don't really have time to game much, so possibly the handful of PS2 titles I've played have given me the wrong impression. But between me and my sister, we've got three RPGs and a... okay, apparently it's an action/adventure/puzzle game. And three out of four of 'em have at least one "damsel in distress" as a primary plot element, to be saved by the male hero. (Though since Dragon Quest VIII prompted my sister for a name without informing her of the gender of its protagonist, he's now the proverbial "boy named Sue.") I realize that male gamers outnumber female gamers, by a lot... but still. Surely there are other plots to explore. Surely one could have strong female characters that would still appeal to male players... without being so blatantly sexualized as to turn off most female players. FYI, the fourth game is Suikoden III, which, between Chris and Cecile, nearly makes up for the excess of princess-rescuing by itself, so I suppose that answers my questions. It would be nice to see more of that, though. So... anyone designing RPGs around here, or was this a Lounge post, really? :P

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Original post by Logodae I realize that male gamers outnumber female gamers, by a lot... but still. Surely there are other plots to explore. Surely one could have strong female characters that would still appeal to male players... without being so blatantly sexualized as to turn off most female players.

I think much of the problem is because male game developers also vastly outnumber female devs.

As for a strong female character, Beyond Good and Evil, is the first game to come to mind. Good game, too bad it didn't sell better.

Beyond Good and Evil rocked. I love that game.

Narrative remains secondary to action. Rescue is one of the oldest and simplest excuses for adventure, and the male/female sexual dynamic one of the richest - and blandest, at the same time.

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Original post by Will F I think much of the problem is because male game developers also vastly outnumber female devs.

Well, that follows. Girls who don't play games aren't likely to aspire to create them.

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As for a strong female character, Beyond Good and Evil, is the first game to come to mind. Good game, too bad it didn't sell better.

Looks interesting. I can already see why it didn't do well, though. Oddly justaposed elements (oppressive aliens + reporter w/ camera = ???) and a title that references Nietzche (I assume) instead of any of those (apparent) elements... it doesn't have the "like X only better!" effect, and it doesn't have an obvious hook of its own. That said, I'll definitely try to find a copy.

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Original post by OluseyiRescue is one of the oldest and simplest excuses for adventure, and the male/female sexual dynamic one of the richest - and blandest, at the same time.

At risk of breaking cover in this bastion of straight maleness... I have a hard time conceiving of "the damsel in distress" as a sexually attractive archetype. I suppose that would account for it, though.

I don't see many new games where you have to save a specific person. Even Mario didn't had to rescue Peach in his last game.

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Original post by Logodae At risk of breaking cover in this bastion of straight maleness... I have a hard time conceiving of "the damsel in distress" as a sexually attractive archetype. I suppose that would account for it, though.

Charming, but the statement is made in terms of the mean of a large, aggregate population (males throughout history), not the reaction of an individual. That this motive has remained strong for thousands of years - only now beginning to subside somewhat as Western cultures begin to loosen their chauvinistic grip on the presentation of women as weak objects of desire and possession, and the corresponding rise of capable women who can take care of themselves and, in some instances, save the male - is testament to its strength.

Of course, the point of rescuing the damsel is not the damsel, but proof of one's own honor and male virileness. It's an ego trip. "I'm so badass I walked into the dragon's lair, bitchslapped his fire-breathing ass and came out with a hottie, to boot! And now she will show her gratitude in very specific ways!"

It's an excuse for a powerful male character to set off on a path of wanton destruction. I mean, consider all the "enemies" that you encounter along the path of such a typical quest: are they really against you? Do you really have to kill them all? (There's usually a bonus if you do, urging you to genocide - and, yes, for the GDNet regulars and old-timers, I obliquely refer to Landfish's argument to End Goblin Genocide in games.)

The genre as a whole is severely underdeveloped because narrative and plot were tacked on as an excuse for your manipulating your graphic blob just so against other graphic blobs. The saving of princesses as motivation is only the surface - the symptom, not the illness itself.

We need more calls to better design, though (personally, I would love not to see any more crates outside of warehouses), so keep making your observations! I'm just trying to help refine them.

Not that I'm against creativity, but the princess-saving storyline goes back a few millenia and isn't going anywhere. The "rational" commentary on it here is (somewhat) clever but silly. You want to grok folk tales? Read Northrop Frye, Joeseph Cambell, or Carl Jung.

If it's done well, I'm in favor of storming the castle, slaying the dragon, and rescuing the princess.

Of course, the industy would probably botch, say, a retelling of the Theseus myth.

My wife loved playing Tomb Raider as Lara Croft. Until they started making the gameplay suck too much (say, around TR4 or so).

When it comes to girl gamers, it's a myth that girls play fewer games than guys, or spend less time playing games than guys. They are, however, on average, less hard-core about their game playing.

It IS true, unfortunately, that there's about a 9:1 ratio between guys and girls in game development in many places. There's some improvement in the last few years, but I think some of it may be because of a statistical biological bias WRT the specific skills involved (3D spatial perception, math-based relations, etc). On the other hand, some other parts of development (like game design, or even texture painting) seem like they'd suit girl developers at least as well as guys, so hopefully we'll achieve some kind of parity in the future.

I like rescuing princesses. It covers up poor gameplay. Simultaneously serving and obtaining a babe is a primordial drive, and guys will do just about anything to do it, even if it means hacking through thousands upon thousands of identical gremlins.

I thought the sprite change in the original Dragon Warrior for NES was brilliant: After you save the princess, you actually carry her back to the castle. Don Quixote would have loved that game.