Especially in RPG games, there is often a huge focus on accessories like armor, weapons and items as character-advancing elements. Often, a sweet new piece of hardware is far more useful than a new skill or a few levels. This adds a lot of gameplay in the form of scavenging and treasure hunting, and it is an endless well of obvious prizes and rewards to offer players after quests or missions. However, it's always been one of the sillier elements in such games, in my opinion. The gear is either hierarchical based on material and design (short/long/broad/bastard sword, cloth/leather/wood/iron/steel helmet, etc) or presented as some kind of magical item which you're yanking from a grave or winning from a villain. Often both. Using the intentionally narrow stereotype I've described here, please post some other ways to employ equipment in a game (RPGs, mostly, but other systems no doubt have aspects worth mentioning) that you think are or would be innovative and effective, eliminating some of the absurdity of a very useful glass helmet (Final Fantasy) without losing so much of the gameplay such systems offer that it's not worthwhile. As a bonus, since this thread was motivated by the Costume Design thread, a way to use gear to make your character distinctive or appropriate in appearance would be welcome. Note: I know this has been discussed before, and I myself started a thread on it some time ago, but rather than necro something else, I'm starting a new one.

IMO it's a lot easier when the game simply bestows significant equipment (new weapons, armor, etc) on you for certain achievements and makes the more trivial things (healing, magic regen, etc) fairly easy to get, either directly, or via money obtained simply.

I think it'd be interesting to design an RPG in which you only ever acquire specific equipment for a specific purpose. Of course, such a constrain limits melée combat as a mechanism, as you'll largely stick to the same weapon from the beginning to end. Then again, you can learn new combat techniques and improve combat skills using the same weapon.

This switches the purpose of exploration from looking for items to looking for people or places, instructors and institutions that can bequeath you increased knowledge of all varieties.

Additionally, making weapons highly disposable - they break, bend, get lost, etc - would turn them into a commodity that the player does not expend exorbitant effort and in-game resources on acquiring, or at least not until a considerable level of skill has been gained that will greatly reduce the likelihood of loss or dispossession. Sort of how we think of notable master warriors possessing weapons forged by master craftsmen.


I just realized that I wasn't really answering the question.

Continuing from the master craftsman description above, you could commission a weapon or armor or decorative garments from craftsmen, which is just a means of representing customization of gear/costume as an in-game action.

Hmm, this is a tough one.

I think I'd prefer it if the characters would stick with a weapon, either for sentinmental reasons or because they're just used to it. King Arthur doesn't just exchange Excalibur for a better sword, and the characters in the Lord of the Rings stick with their swords, bows and axes throughout the whole story.

So I suppose I'd prefer the hero in games to start off with the legendary sword (maybe that's why they're the hero?) and make the focus of the game on something else (maybe actually using that legendary sword? [smile]).

Many of the concepts in modern RPGs are there only because when those games first came out, the hardware was so limited that systems like this were usually the only option.

Now that we have the freedom to create any system we want, I think it's time to throw away the hierarchical equipment crap. Borrowing ideas from other genres and real life could help out a lot. For example, in Halo you have your melee weapons, your short range weapons, long range, sniper, grenades, etc.

Each type of weapon in an RPG should have its specific role. Some may be better than others, but if your character is truly a master of combat for instance, then it shouldn't matter what weapon he happens to pick up, unless he gets shafted and all he has is a copper short sword and his opponent has a steel long sword. In that case he's not going to be able to parry very well, his sword may break and he won't be able to close distance easily.

I think there should still be those "uber" items, but your character should be much more important than what equipment he has.

Thanks for your participation, everyone.

When I play RPGs, I always wind up with a huge mound of gear in the late game. In Morrowind, where gold is so freaking scarce and no shop has enough to pay you for your fancy gear, most of your wealth is in the form of equipment. In online games, that wealth can be used for player-to-player trading. Diablo II is a good example, with "mule" characters being made to stockpile hardware for later trade or sale.

Taking away the phat lewt would deprive players of one of the "scorecards" they use to compare their characters, and eliminate a form of currency. Would it be possible to replace that function of inventory items? Could you trade skills by "sparring" with other players, or offer "lessons" to newbies in exchange for gold or other desirables?

I also like the idea of legendary gear being present in the game, but when 5,000 different players can all be outfitted with a full set of the Glowing Armor of the Seraphim, it's less awesome. I think it would be very interesting indeed to have a whole world populated by commonly, yet diversely, clad characters, with the odd amazing piece of hardware. You could earn a legendary dragon-infested katana, but not be able to afford any really fancy armor, so you'd wander the land in your hakama and kimono with a scruffy beard and body odor, and just happen to be able to slice through armies if that's what was called for. I think that would be sweet.

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Original post by Iron Chef Carnage Using the intentionally narrow stereotype I've described here, please post some other ways to employ equipment in a game (RPGs, mostly, but other systems no doubt have aspects worth mentioning) that you think are or would be innovative and effective, eliminating some of the absurdity of a very useful glass helmet (Final Fantasy) without losing so much of the gameplay such systems offer that it's not worthwhile.

Something i think i've read a while ago here, so not going to try to take any credit for it... but, the idea was basically to introduce improvement of attributes of the player's currently used gear (or gear class) instead of presenting them with "another sword of even greater pwnage +3" every two hours of play. The stat changes would reflect either the character becoming more familiar and thus effective with their weapon of choice over time, or things like "as reward for your help the shady old man shows you a trick that you'd never guess was possible with your dagger" ... "corroded with the blood of dragon you've slayed the blade of your axe is now poisonous to touch" ... "this jacket has been patched and strengthened by grateful leathersmith you've rescued at crossroads" ... things like that.

The size of player inventory gets reduced as the result, but the pieces of gear with their own accumulated unique enhancements and history become more valuable, perhaps to the point where the player might start to think twice if they want to throw away what they already have and replace it with something new. At the same time if/when they actually do decide to switch the gear, the change is more accented than just grabbing yet another new sword and selling the previous weapon at the nearest "ye olde junk shoppe"

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Original post by tolaris Something i think i've read a while ago here, so not going to try to take any credit for it... but, the idea was basically to introduce improvement of attributes of the player's currently used gear (or gear class) instead of presenting them with "another sword of even greater pwnage +3" every two hours of play. The stat changes would reflect either the character becoming more familiar and thus effective with their weapon of choice over time, or things like "as reward for your help the shady old man shows you a trick that you'd never guess was possible with your dagger" ...

I've seen that idea before as well, and it's one I really like. It gives equipment more of a history, and one that may well be somewhat personal for the player. I'm sure we've all played games where you pick up the weapon of a long-dead hero, imbued with all sorts of powers he/she/it was famed for; why don't our own weapons ever become similarly well known when we become heroes, slay hordes of monsters, etc.

I'd also like to see an overall reduction in the amount of special or magical equipment that's actually present in games. Sure, include the +5 sword of uberness, but I'd expect it to be a hell of a lot rarer than the +1 sword of moderate-coolness. In turn, I think the majority of equipment present in the world should really be just your average weapons, and instead of the group of bandits in the mountains being equipped with special or magical equipment, or even anything common, why not more realistically equip them with old, broken, or perhaps even makeshift weapons (which as an aside probably won't be of much interest to the player most of the time).

In a single-player setting I think the above suggestions would work just fine as long as the player got used to it and there was some alternate method to encourage continued exploration. In a multiplayer (MMO anyone?) setting, you could use such systems to automatically generate competition and rivalry between players, and perhaps as the subject of quests - perhaps some rich NPC puts out a reward for the retrieval of Joe-players sword, which has become rather famous through his deeds, and perhaps has been bestowed with some rare or unique abilities.


One thing I've already touched on and that Oluseyi raised is that the importance of weapons does tend to play an important gameplay role in these types of games, by encouraging exploration. You'd need to effectively replace this motivation somehow, or alternately change the world design so that it's no longer neccesary. Going to find specific people, more interesting side-quests, etc. are all good things to consider here.


That's my 2c anyways. [wink]

I mainly agree with the familiar weapon strategy. It's the way it works in real life, and it adds a penalty to switching equipment. If the character fights through a 3rd of the game with a simple iron short sword, and has nearly mastered this weapon (+8 reaction, +3 power, +5 criticals), then switching to a better weapon might actually degrade fighting ability for a long period of time as they become accustomed to it. They may end up with higher potential by switching, but at least the switch becomes a decision to be made, rather than a completely obvious way to go.

Upgrades would also be great, depending on the complexity of the equipment. It's a bit difficult to upgrade a red cloth shirt, but a sniper rifle or an electromagnetic space suit can be taken in that direction. What if the lowliest equipment in the game can end up being pimped out enough to surpass the highest? Another decision to make. Some players may not want to keep using the seemingly crappy weapon long enough to upgrade it. And with the 'familiar' rule, it wouldn't be wise to just switch totally to it far into the game once those are all available.

Less differences in the actual destructive power of weapons (or defensive power of armor) is also a plus. Instead of + 5 damage, try adding other variations. Like the weapon dulling faster, or not working as well against certain materials (old fire-ice trick). Everyone probably agrees that two similar swords stabbing you in the leg are going to do nearly the same amount of damage. Iron hurts just as much as silver. In fact, it could probably cause more damage to flesh with the weight. You might think that removing the "upgrade your weapon to combat greater enemies" deal would take away from the game. I'll just point you to Fallout.

Which brings me to that subject. Fallout solved all of these problems. They did it so elegantly, it's difficult to realise there's a difference. I think I used a different weapon every time I played the game. I even played through it once using the weapon you start with - the spear. It's funny how that game seems to answer nearly all of my concerns. It's a freakin masterpiece.

I've been playing the .Hack// series lately, and the overabundance of gear is pretty obvious expecially when the effect is spread throughout four volumes.

The thing about the .hack series I like is that the monsters don't drop money, they drop items or equipment that you sell, trade, or give to your team mates.

However, that game also has virtually NO suspension of disbelief. You KNOW its a game, so there are some problems with it.

One thing that would be nice would be if clothing affected how your character looked (like head-gear, coats, pants and shoes) so you could easily dress up as a pirate or ninja or commoner with the right items. But then you might need a "fashion sense" feature that tells how each item works with the others. (having a heavy axeman walk around with a wizards hat, a thiefs coat, leg armor, and ballarina slippers might give him some neat stat bonuses but it would look really nasty)

I kind of like how Final Fantasy tactics did it where you could enter a store and they could automaticaly suggested the best combination of items for your stats. I suppose if you assigned each armor item a color (to prevent clashing colors) and a uniform type (for Pirates, Wizards, or General Use) then the store could suggest items for your specific class that wouldn't look weird.

You might also set it so everyone can wear all items as long as you don't have clashing uniform types. So if you normaly use the Heavy Axe then you just wear Heavy Axeman cloths because you look best that way, but you could also disguise yourself as a Wizard by wearing all Wizard cloths. But half-assing it with a combination of clothing types makes people hate you.