Again?!?!?! The Game: A 3D isometric SF RPG The Problem: Which would you prefer, an RPG-like game that had reliable setting, or one that was more unpredictable and random? The Details: This might seem obvious, but there''s some hidden troubles with either solution. The setting is a sector of the galaxy that holds the ruins of a great, polycultural republic. There are 7 nations, and about 2 to 7 factions within each nation. Everything''s post apocalyptic, so the sector is rebuilding, re-establishing trade, and settling old grudges. So, Reliable With a reliable setting, you get challenges and growth at a somewhat predictable rate. Nations are spread out. Quests are appropriately placed. The map is entirely predesigned. Gauranteed good the first time through, but boring thereafter. After you explore, there''s no reason to replay. Random Tech levels, locations, and quests are random each time. Exploring the sector is fresh... but! AI is controlling the nations and factions. You might start one game, and be immediately invaded by an enemy empire. Your star system might be cut off from others (via jump gates and the random map). Trade might be scarce if everyone''s at war. Combat opportunities, or to sneak around might be less if everyone''s at peace. I like the random idea the best, but fear that traditional RPGers will get ticked because there is 1) NO STORY (the nations, factions, and characters make a kind of story) and 2) No guarantee that the game will be paced just right... it''s more like a kind of sim... -------------------- Just waiting for the mothership...

The RANDOM version. The Story is just that, "The Story".

As to your second point: You can easily measure the time since the game began. So scale the difficulty according to time progressed, but remember to at some point allow it to plateau so as not to make the game become impossible.


NPCs will be inherited from the basic Entity class. They will be fully independent, and carry out their own lives oblivious to the world around them ... that is, until you set them on fire ...

Well, Wav, assumming that this game were to include the concept of "many ways to deal w/ the situations", I don''t think the Reliable option would have to be boring. The options for interaction would allow for many dynamic situations plus you could still have a well thought out world.

I would not say that this would be better necessarily, but I thought I would mention the other side of the situation.


"All you touch and all you see is all your life will ever be --Pink Floyd

Need help? Well, go FAQ yourself.

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random.

I prefer random settings!

In my opinion it is not impossible to balance the game even if the setting is more or less random! Even if all nations are at war - that only means you can trade more goods nedded for war. If you are cut off from other nation then there is the possibility of supplying your world via smuggeling...
So balance might be no issue if you let the player more flexibility to react to given situations!

As to the story part: Of course there is no (linear) story if you have random setting. BUT as I mentioned in an earlier post, the stories really worth telling are the ones shaped by the player! Imagine what players will tell in such "random" games:

"...so they cut my whole system off from supply! But fortunately I could afford a small cloaking device and sneaking by their blockade... I can only imagine their faces when they heard I was gone!"

This is what counts - I''d love to play such a game! If you want to keep a little control, then include setting independent small missions, or a even larger backround story, that is not effected by the setting, too.


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I''d be shocked if you didn''t go with random. Solving the 2 problems you listed is easy, assuming the game enviroment is evolved and not an instant state.

1) Make sure you give the player access to the nations and characters history to some extent. Let the player read it and be motivated by what oppertunities the past has created.

2) If you''re worried about the possibility of an enviroment completely balencing out and creating a boring place to be then you might need to add an element that shakes up the other systems. Something like weather effects if necissary on a galactic scale. No clue how to do this exactly, but it''d be that external believable random hand of fate rolling the dice kind of force.

As for unfair starting conditions, if you could allow the player to make some abstract decisions on the enviroment they want to play in, then they''d get what they asked for. For example, on a scale of red to blue, how aggressive is Rat Race. Or how in demand is Element X. It might not be something that you''d have to set up everytime but some sort or setting screen next to the video options.

quote: Original post by kseh

I''d be shocked if you didn''t go with random.

Yeah, given my earlier posts, this is a bit out of character for me.

quote:
1) Make sure you give the player access to the nations and characters history to some extent. Let the player read it and be motivated by what oppertunities the past has created.

Okay, this I see how to do. I already am going to run the simulation at start up to build up the history and flavor of the sector. But I''m not sure how this would create opportunities, unless there''s some tie between the civilization''s history and the type of gameplay you desire.

quote:
2) If you''re worried about the possibility of an enviroment completely balencing out and creating a boring place to be then you might need to add an element that shakes up the other systems. Something like weather effects if necissary on a galactic scale. No clue how to do this exactly, but it''d be that external believable random hand of fate rolling the dice kind of force.

Maybe if the player were more warlike, then the AI for the empires would tend to be more warlike themselves. Sort of a Game Master type hack.

Or maybe it''s better to simply make sure all types of gameplay are available (trade, stealth, combat). Hmmmm...

quote:
As for unfair starting conditions, if you could allow the player to make some abstract decisions on the enviroment they want to play in, then they''d get what they asked for. For example, on a scale of red to blue, how aggressive is Rat Race. Or how in demand is Element X. It might not be something that you''d have to set up everytime but some sort or setting screen next to the video options.

So you''re not just creating your character, but also specifying the setting? If so, that''d be interesting and more direct. It might kill the fun of exploring, though, as you already know what kind of universe you''e in.

Hmmmm.... This is thorny...


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Just waiting for the mothership...

quote: Original post by grbrg

In my opinion it is not impossible to balance the game even if the setting is more or less random! Even if all nations are at war - that only means you can trade more goods nedded for war. If you are cut off from other nation then there is the possibility of supplying your world via smuggeling...
So balance might be no issue if you let the player more flexibility to react to given situations!

Okay, so what you''re saying is that no matter where you are, there should always be an opportunity to do the core game activities. Even if your empire is isolated, it could be in conflict with itself (civil war, rebels); etc.

This would mean that there''d always need to be conflicting sides (for combat), sensor / patrol networks (for stealth), and trade bases (for trading and smuggling).

At least, always in your starting system, bare minimum.

This would mean that even if you were invaded, the invaders would need to leave all of this intact. I''d have to prevent total extermination (was going to anyway), and extremely brutal occupations (you couldn''t be Bajoran freedom fighters at start, then)

quote:
As to the story part: Of course there is no (linear) story if you have random setting. BUT as I mentioned in an earlier post, the stories really worth telling are the ones shaped by the player! Imagine what players will tell in such "random" games:

"...so they cut my whole system off from supply! But fortunately I could afford a small cloaking device and sneaking by their blockade... I can only imagine their faces when they heard I was gone!"

This is what counts - I''d love to play such a game! If you want to keep a little control, then include setting independent small missions, or a even larger backround story, that is not effected by the setting, too.

Yeah, this is actually the best kind of story to me, too. I don''t care so much about really telling a story, I more want the player to be able to make his own.


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Just waiting for the mothership...

Wav,
About random vs. non-random, I have a theory that if a game has a good amount of interaction, player-choice, and divergence then the game can be non-random and still be replayable and interesting. (how''s that for a run-on sentence )

The randomness would be replaced by the many possible ways to interact with the game and/or plot. This is assuming that there is a great deal of divergence and interaction though.



"All you touch and all you see is all your life will ever be --Pink Floyd

Need help? Well, go FAQ yourself.

----------------------------
Click here to see my current project.

I played a game like this one you''re making way back in the Apple II days...I think it was Typan? Anyway I jsut remember making a killing selling Oppium to Singapore!

Just Go with a generic history and make the generator conform to that history...Like what you had there...
"The setting is a sector of the galaxy that holds the ruins of a great, polycultural republic. There are 7 nations, and about 2 to 7 factions within each nation. Everything''s post apocalyptic, so the sector is rebuilding, re-establishing trade, and settling old grudges."
Add some details about how the Old Regime experienced a Civil War...Add some leaders to each side and how it spilt into 7 different warring parties...Then just make the generator build from there. Place nations/factions randomly with random stats because you never TOLD anything about what they were.

It''s like Alpha Centauri. They had a big story and then just randomly generated [insert ''THE'' here for those who never played] Planet.