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They Killed Fritz!! Those lousy strinkin....

Started by August 22, 2005 07:31 AM
15 comments, last by TechnoGoth 19 years, 5 months ago
One path to unit preservation is to make the units self-preserving. Do something like Cossacks 2 does: When they think they're cannon fodder, they run. If you value your soldiers and keep them out of needless cannon fodder situations, they'll perform as they are supposed to. So the player won't just let them fight to the death if unneccessary, because the units won't do it.

OR:

A general "population morale" could be introduced. If units die needlessly, morale goes down, and negative things happen (i.e. unit costs go up, slower building times, etc.) The player will be careful so he can remain in business.

The leveling up idea also gets my vote. I don't think you can force a player to care about their units. I care if my units die in almost every RTS I play (many many). I think players need to be given a practical reason to keep units alive.
-----------------------------If pi is used to find the dimensions of a pie,Is cak used to find the dimensions of a cake?
I like that idea of morale, kindof reminds me of Outpost 2. OP2 had a great economic model for maintaining your colony and keeping your colonists happy, though the combat portion felt like it was just kinda slapped on for effect.

sanch3x: It is an old game yes, but you can still buy copies on E-Bay. There's a bunch them being sold right now Here. I'd suggest getting the collectors edition also being sold, i think they re-tooled X-Com 1 in that package to run on faster pentium class machines, the old dos versions need slow-down programs.
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A morale system could be implimented, but most players would become frustated without some degree of control. Defining things like "needless" death in rigid computer terms can rob a player of strategy, forcing him to play to the unrealistic computer model (or be frustated by the seemingly random morale changes) instead of playing normally but with an eye for troop preservation. This ultimately leads to players depending on ways to exploit the system rather then play with it.

One way would be to simplify it to a morale bar. Treated like a health bar, the morale bar would be a simplified view of the soldiers morale. If the bar reachs zero, you lose control of the soldier and they go into AI self preservation mode. The morale bar would slowly recharge over time, and would be reduced by simple, documented factors like friendly units dying nearby or taking damage when there appears to be no nearby friendly unit. The overall army morale (perhaps set by overall troop deaths, and recharged over time) would determine the size of the morale bar for each troop. So if army morale was low, it wouldn't take much to panic a soldier.

Such a system could work well to provide an abstract base for other warfare elements. Squad leader and command units could have a morale aura, helping to maintain the morale of nearby units. Players could also pay to improve morale, by building R&R buildings, or depending on the side, propoganda buildings and units (you want some way for a player to combat low morale, otherwise it's both a slippery slope and a source of frustration for a losing player).

It could also be used to provide a unique and appropriate side balance for modern war (like the factions in C&C Generals or Battlefield 2 [US/Middle East/China]). In that example the US, with the most superior units and technology, would also suffer the effects of a democracy with the most fragile troop morale. The fanatical "Middle East" would have the most highly resistent morale with the lowest tech, and finally the Chinese would be able to most easily purchase (so long as they had funds) morale through propaganda, while having middle ground units and technology.

Such a balance would likely cause the sides to actually be used in a realistic manner - US players would be best served using overwhelming force to prevent casualties while ME players could employ suicidal terror tactics to demoralize the enemy, setting them up for defeat.
Age of Empires 2 is about the only RTS I can remember playing. So I'm not sure

Have all units start out as peasants or civilians who just kind of go about their buisiness. The game starts out with a certain number and their numbers increase over time depending on how well they are protected, how much food they get, their health etc.

When you make a special unit, you basically turn a civilian into a unit and each unit has a first and last name (the last name doesn't really mean anything, just allows more name combos). So the number of units you can make depends on depends on how well you care of the civilians. This goes the same for your enemies so if you can capture their towns you can cut off their supply of fresh troops.


Then, units start out as basic units and can improve with experience, turning from standard units to vetrans or something. This means you have to be careful with your troops if you want to get more powerful units.


If too many units are used as cannon fodder then civilain morale drops and it may become more difficult to recruit soldiers unless you do something like spread propaganda. Some soldiers might mutiney and try joining the other side, civilians might be easier for the enemy to convert.

Be able to carry your units over to multiple games. Perhaps on the campain menu you have your name and a list of all your units from previous games (or perhaps just the ones that have upgraded to a certain level) and you can then start a new map and carry over those units to another game.


Another thing, have it where units are not automatically killed but can be wounded to the point where they can't fight. So wounded soldiers collaps on the battlefield and will either die if they are left too long or can be rescued by your side. However, if the enemy captures them they can try forcing them to their side and the effectiveness depends on the troops morale.
There have been some good responses and I'd like to respond to a few.

The idea of graduated levels is an interesting one and something I was thinking of myself as a way of improving units so that rather as they move up ranks they can gain new abilites or equipment. One idea the springs to mind is that a unit earns it name so that until it reaches the first it doesn't have a name. I'm also thinking that character ranks could tie very well into the victory point system that I am using in the game. So each rank has a victory point value associated with it having a character of that rank alive at the end of battle gives you victory points based on their rank while at the same time if the enemy kills that unit it would gain those victory points. In this way named units become a double edged sword.

I'm also considering having a combined fatigue and moral bar that increases the longer the unit stays away from the base and changes based on events. When a unit returns to you're base or a rest area then the bar decrease based on the amenities available. So having a barracks, with the mess hall, and lounge add-ons would mean it takes less time for units to recover to their full effectiveness.

One thing that strikes when Michalson ideas is that they could be used to make a really interesting Post Apocalyptic RTS game. Where the only units the play can build are survivors and they have to gain experience in order to become more advanced units. More advanced units would allow you to salvage and use vehicles as well as build structures.

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