I think it's a decent idea, I essentially modified my Ubuntu install on my laptop for just this purpose, stripped it down to just development

Quote: Original post by Name_Unknown
The concept would be to build a uniform Linux distro on which developing games would be easy (er).

Quote: Original post by Oluseyi
Rebooting to play games on a PC is stupid.

Oluseyi, I'm pretty sure that you didn't read the post thoroughly, and even after your second reply you don't seem to have read it properly. I agree with your feelings about rebooting just to play games, but I don't think that's the true idea of the original post.

GamesKnoppix is really easy to remaster(same method of remastering as regular knoppix), and includes the propietary video card drivers as an option. I was gonna do this a while back, but right now lack the time/funds to keep a server up to redistribute it.

Quote: I had thought about this for a long while, to create a linux distro specifically for making games.

Who is supposed to use this?

Developers? If you manage to give them directx + visual studio with native hardware support for directx I guess you will gain all support from developers.

They will then just wait before majority of users switch to linux and then produce linux games.

& users?

Probably 90% of earth population is using windows. And ppl are using windows because all drivers and such are done for windows. Many hardware vendors don't do *nix drivers for many of their hardware, ex. logitech, creative, hp for scanners & printers etc Grafic card drivers for linux are still jokes, both nvidia's and ati's.

I don't think the problem is (un)usability. KDE or gnome can certainly be more user friendly then explorer will ever be, but ppl have other needs then hunting themes at kde.org. Until computers came with linux preinstalled as they do with windows, and u can just plug your webcam, scanner, digicam and whatever and get it work without chasing 1000 different libs all in right versions, I don't think ppl will start to use linux as mainstream.

I'm linux user since redhat 6.0, and after years with it, I can say that linux is MORE INTERESTING os, but not BETTER os, then windows xp or os X. Interesting since I'm a programmer myself, but as home user I actually prefer xp. I just can't imagine how could I explaing to my mother & my aunt both 53 & 55 years old, how to see each other over webcam and talk to each other via net. In xp, all they have to do was click on a button in msn messenger and voila they can speak & see each other. Even those 55 year old grannys managed that.

However as situation is today I don't think anyone will want to run games at 80% slowerspeed through wine or cedega, and anyway running from a cd distro still needs rebooting - just to play game, which defies your intention anyway ...

However making linux distro for yourself is always nice hobby & learning opportunity :).

Quote: Original post by Anonymous Poster
I'm linux user since redhat 6.0, and after years with it, I can say that linux is MORE INTERESTING os, but not BETTER os, then windows xp or os X. Interesting since I'm a programmer myself, but as home user I actually prefer xp. I just can't imagine how could I explaing to my mother & my aunt both 53 & 55 years old, how to see each other over webcam and talk to each other via net. In xp, all they have to do was click on a button in msn messenger and voila they can speak & see each other. Even those 55 year old grannys managed that.

GUI != OS. Is it not possible that Windows has the superior GUI but Linux has the superior OS? You may think this is an artificial distinction when nearly everybody uses a graphical interface, but a game distribution is one example where the desktop interface may not even be necessary.

Quote: However as situation is today I don't think anyone will want to run games at 80% slowerspeed through wine or cedega, and anyway running from a cd distro still needs rebooting - just to play game, which defies your intention anyway ...

I've heard tales of some games actually running faster on Wine than on Win32. I don't see any inherent reason for a significant decrease in performance on Linux.

On the other hand, I must admit that I don't really see the benefit of such a distro. The original post referred vaguely to Linux not being an attractive development platform, but didn't really attempt to guess why. I don't think there's a problem inherent to the platform, just the assorted problems that come with the usual Linux obstacles (dependency hell, hardware not supported out of the box, etc). A more standardised set of gaming libraries would help too, but many of those already exist.

Quote:
I've heard tales of some games actually running faster on Wine than on Win32. I don't see any inherent reason for a significant decrease in performance on Linux.

running from a CD lowers performance, although 80% is kind of an exaggeration, you'd lose ~25-30% of the speed from running from the CD, a hard drive install would get rid of this handicap.

Quote:
Many hardware vendors don't do *nix drivers for many of their hardware, ex. [] hp for scanners & printers etc Grafic card drivers for linux are still jokes, both nvidia's and ati's.

Then what are the hpijs and hpojs drivers that hp provides? 2ndly nVidia's linux driver is very mature and has roughly the same performance with windows playing doom 3 on my Geforce MX 440 card when I run a window manager. If I don't run a window manager I can get even better performance. The whole problem with this is though that the nVidia driver taints the system because it's not open source(or even partially open source a la OSX style)

The idea has been tried before... and failed. There used to be a site called www.gbld.net the reason why it failed is from a lack of interest in creating an original game, and the underestimation of what it takes to put together a linux distrobution.

You're better off joining happypenguin.org game of the month to make better games for linux so people switch.

Quote: Probably 90% of earth population is using windows. And ppl are using windows because all drivers and such are done for windows. Many hardware vendors don't do *nix drivers for many of their hardware, ex. logitech, creative, hp for scanners & printers etc Grafic card drivers for linux are still jokes, both nvidia's and ati's.

BS,The entire infrastucture of the internet is UNIX based. UNIX is stream lined to perform better on multiple procceses as oposes to a single procces like Windows. SGI is the industry leader in visualiztion technology, http://www.sgi.com/industries/government/. Do you really think NASA and the government use Windows for their 3d simulations? Do you know that sony uses MIPS proccesors in all their 3d gaming hardware? Most if not all hardware is UNIX compatible. You really have no clue what you are talking about. I have gotten DRI graphics drivers for both ATI and Nvidia working perfectly on multiple machines in both linux and freebsd. Most if not all hardware is UNIX compatible.

Quote: I'm linux user since redhat 6.0, and after years with it, I can say that linux is MORE INTERESTING os, but not BETTER os, then windows xp or os X.

Again you have no clue what you are talking about. Did you know that OS X is based off of a hacked freebsd UNIX kernel? The only REAL difference from OS X to freebsd is the fact that it comes with a pretty GUI and is easy to configure. Does this fact make OS X a superior OS to freebsd? An operating system kernel and a GUI are two different things that you apparently can not distinguish. Please explain to me how OS X > freebsd when its 99.9% the same kernel?

Quote: I just can't imagine how could I explaing to my mother & my aunt both 53 & 55 years old how to see each other over webcam and talk to each other via ne

This is the price you pay for a HIGHLY configurable, SECURE and STABLE operating system.

Quote: Original post by clayasaurus
You're better off joining happypenguin.org game of the month to make better games for linux so people switch.

Thank you clayasaurus, you just gave me a huge flash of inspiration (whether you know it or not [grin])! The current problem with Linux hardware support, etc. is that not enough people use Linux for the big corporations to think about supporting it, and not enough big corporations support it for many people to think about using it. One of the biggest problems is, yes, drivers. They are sometimes unstable, lower performing, but this is not really the case with nVidia's drivers as they are quite excellent (and only crash irregularily when emulating through Cedega). However, many other companies provide lower-quality drivers (*cough* ATi), or no drivers at all. These companies would probably provide better/more drivers if more people used Linux (as was mentioned).

The only thing(s) holding back people from using Linux is gaming, as Linux is suitable for gaming but there aren't many games (oh, and the fact that many people don't know much about Linux or have the misconception that it takes a crapload of geekiness and weeks of time to set up a Linux box, which can be true but, with modern installers, is more often not). Why aren't there many games? Because game developers don't develop for Linux. So how do we encourage game developers to develop for Linux? I think the OP's gamedev distribution might be of some use here... by simplifying game development-specific tasks, maybe we could get more companies to join in? Just a thought (a long one).

[edit] My point was probably lost in the long rant, so I'll summarize it here: If a gamedev-oriented distro were to be made, and it encouraged more people to make Linux (or cross-platform) games, then more games would likely be made and more people would use Linux.

Now, to go off-topic a little bit. Unfortunately, Mr. AP is correct in saying that sometimes, there can be an 80% or more decrease in performance when running games from wine/Cedega (specifically that I've noticed, Guild Wars slows to a halt in towns and outposts, although I haven't tested this in my Windows to make sure if it's just Linux). However, many times more there will be no difference, or even an increase (as someone else said).

And about the GUI - if you really want to, you can program an app that uses gaim-remote so that, when you press the single, large, red-colored button on it, it will open gaim. Windows does have a better GUI in some respects, but Linux definitely has a better GUI in others. The GUI thing is really personal preference, but if you ask me, putting more functions into less buttons (which is basically what the AP was talking about, from my viewpoint) isn't an example of good interface design. Eventually we'll end up with, "Welcome to gaim. Press the big red button to sign on. Once signed in, press the big red button to list your buddies. CTRL+click the big red button to talk to a buddy. SHIFT+click the big red button to log out. ALT+click the big red button x number of times to select the x-th buddy. etc", which will be a big mess. Clean, simple, fast is what I prefer, not 'easy'. And come to think of it, Windows isn't 'easy' either. It's not all that intuitive, it's just so widely used that it's accepted as being 'easy' and 'intuitive'. I'm not an MSN expert, but I don't think there is a one-button command for starting a chat, voice-chat, and webcam to one predetermined buddy.

Just my view on the matter. Cheers!

Quote: Original post by gosper
BS,The entire infrastucture of the internet is UNIX based. UNIX is stream lined to perform better on multiple procceses as oposes to a single procces like Windows.

Countering BS with BS is not an effective strategy. Most UNIX enthusiasts are painfully ignorant as to the design and architecture of Windows since they'd have to spend money on books and trust those books rather than examine the source themselves, and since ideology precludes the majority of them from actually running Windows and performing confirmatory experiments. Note that "UNIX enthusiasts" are a small minority of the UNIX userbase; the majority of users of any operating system are pragmatists - whatever is best suited to the task at hand.

Quote: Do you know that sony uses MIPS proccesors in all their 3d gaming hardware?

That's really irrelevant to a Windows-UNIX comparison, given that Windows can run on other architectures (DEC - now HP by way of Compaq - Alpha, for instance).

Quote: Most if not all hardware is UNIX compatible.

Not for the home consumer. ATi and Nvidia graphics cards aren't the only forms of hardware out there, and "UNIX" is a dangerous catch-all in this regard. Are you, for instance, suggesting that my Wacom Graphire tablet will work on HP-UX?

Didn't think so.

Quote: Again you have no clue what you are talking about. Did you know that OS X is based off of a hacked freebsd UNIX kernel? The only REAL difference from OS X to freebsd is the fact that it comes with a pretty GUI and is easy to configure. Does this fact make OS X a superior OS to freebsd? An operating system kernel and a GUI are two different things that you apparently can not distinguish. Please explain to me how OS X > freebsd when its 99.9% the same kernel?

Because a kernel does not an operating system make.

For the overwhelming majority of computer users, the kernel is immaterial. The user environment, on the other hand, is critical, and UNIX consistently fails to deliver in that regard for the majority of desktop and non-industrial users. Why? UNIX was designed as a series of components designed to be used by other components. It's completely different when your entire system is built around human-computer interaction, and OS X is proof positive that the technical underpinnings can even be the same.

Most programmers, and UNIX afficionados in particular, don't really get this because they have the aptitude to think like programs. Their opinions are irrelevant to the majority of humanity who don't. Consequently, as a user-oriented operating system, Windows and Mac OS are better.

/me dons flame retardant suit

Quote: This is the price you pay for a HIGHLY configurable, SECURE and STABLE operating system.

Useless to the end consumer if it isn't easy to use. The conceit shared by many technically-minded people that people should wrap their minds around how the computer works rather than vice versa is a cop out: it's an easy excuse for not designing and building better, more stable, more secure and more robust systems that offer people-oriented affordances. It's a gimme that lets the techs avoid having to interact with the general population to determine their needs, and it's the reason why Linux on the desktop is primarily a weak clone of Windows and Mac OS.

Flame on!

Quote: Original post by fyhuang
And about the GUI - if you really want to, you can program an app that uses gaim-remote so that, when you press the single, large, red-colored button on it, it will open gaim. Windows does have a better GUI in some respects, but Linux definitely has a better GUI in others. The GUI thing is really personal preference, but if you ask me, putting more functions into less buttons (which is basically what the AP was talking about, from my viewpoint) isn't an example of good interface design. Eventually we'll end up with, "Welcome to gaim. Press the big red button to sign on. Once signed in, press the big red button to list your buddies. CTRL+click the big red button to talk to a buddy. SHIFT+click the big red button to log out. ALT+click the big red button x number of times to select the x-th buddy. etc", which will be a big mess. Clean, simple, fast is what I prefer, not 'easy'. And come to think of it, Windows isn't 'easy' either. It's not all that intuitive, it's just so widely used that it's accepted as being 'easy' and 'intuitive'. I'm not an MSN expert, but I don't think there is a one-button command for starting a chat, voice-chat, and webcam to one predetermined buddy.

Apple Human Interface Guidelines
Official Guidelines for User Interface Designers and Developers (Microsoft)
Guide to Usability for Software Engineers
Don Norman's jnd.org : User advocacy and human-centered design
GNOME Human Interface Guidelines and The GNOME Usability Project
KDE User Interface Guidelines, KDE Human Interface Guidelines and The KDE Usability Project
FLTK Human Interface Guidelines

Hey, the resources are out there.