Bit of a shameless plug before I go on, but I've posted my idea for an MMOFPS just recently in the "Game idea for MMO" thread. I'm not going to mention it anywhere else in this post, but my reasoning in the idea draws from the same reasoning here. Now, moving on: I've never quite liked RPGs. The genre assumes that all the player wishes to do is move about the world using a character in such a way that the path may be different for all players, but the end result and all the main turning points are the same. That is, that's what happens in single-player RPGs released by the big studios, your Final Fantasy and whatnot. I don't like those, anyway.
By what I understand, MMO should dictate an environment where players define themselves through their own decisions and paths, but most MMORPGs don't realize this potential. The structure of an MMORPG as we know it today centers around an established progression from one general location to another, moving the player along a path that is populated at its chokepoints only by creatures that the player should be able to handle at that time. Regardless of how much freedom you believe you have in this world, there is still a grand design that rewards you only for moving along a set path in a set amount of time. The MMO environment can last for infinity only because its many stopping points are both tailored to the strengths of those progressing along the right path and regenerate themselves over time. The world is "persistent" only because it cannot change. Beyond that, it's just a matter of plugging thousands of players into the same environment at the same time so they can interact.
As Jiia said, the problem is giving 10,000 people the status or at least ambition of being a hero among the masses. Every individual has the sense that they must be allowed to lead their fellow players, not follow another. The community becomes hostile towards one another, and in the race to be the proud first among thousands, those wishing anything different get stepped on.
If you want to make a better MMORPG, start with the concept of giving power to a player. Ask yourself if one player's hours of fighting against hordes of Skeleton Badgers gives him the right to have power over others. In the sense of an RPG, yes it does, but in the sense of an online game, it's ridiculous.
In my opinion, military/rank type situations make the best MMO experience. Just as in the real world, to become a hero, you go out on a limb to succeed and attempt something that most people wouldn't. The result is praise and promotion. It only works if the guy risking his neck is really risking something of value, such as his character's entire progress and life. Otherwise, everyone is jumping in front of guns to save ladies. The promotion aspect gives you access to more goodies, more authority, and a permanent ego boost, and at the same time, makes it that much harder to jump in front of another bullet.
Original post by Jiia I expected to get flamed for that remark :P
In my opinion, military/rank type situations make the best MMO experience. Just as in the real world, to become a hero, you go out on a limb to succeed and attempt something that most people wouldn't. The result is praise and promotion. It only works if the guy risking his neck is really risking something of value, such as his character's entire progress and life. Otherwise, everyone is jumping in front of guns to save ladies. The promotion aspect gives you access to more goodies, more authority, and a permanent ego boost, and at the same time, makes it that much harder to jump in front of another bullet.
That's what I had in mind with my game idea. nice post jiia.
In most mmorpg you must spend hours leveling and killing creatures to become a "hero", it is ridiculous.It's your actions that count, not your skills/points.
Although I believe there must be another way a player can feel unique.
What if the MMO part was just community stuff? Chat, trading, and other conversational stuff could be handled in peaceful, progress-free neutral areas, like taverns, motherships, or headquarters. Actual gameplay would work as a system of sorties, with relatively small teams being put into semi-unique situations.
I play StarCraft on Battle.net, and I'm useless. I barely qualify as a player. There are guys who are heroes in that world, I'm just not among them. Yet I play it on a semi-regular basis. I log onto Battle.net, chat with my various buddies (mostly strangers who've handed me my ass on several occasions), and maybe take a game. I'll play some 1v1 (and lose pathetically), or maybe a 2v2 game. If there are a bunch of us in the mood, we'll fire up a pseudo-campaign map or do a challenge co-op map.
Why can't that sort of cummunity experience be translated into an MMO without the grind rearing it's ugly head? Why must time played translate directly to ability to kick butts?
How about if most of the game was the equivalent of a chat room? You sit in a bar, enjoy some arm-wrestling mini-games and gamble away your surplus gold at the poker table. When the mood strikes you, you round up a half-dozen allies and go out on a mission. Maybe it's a slay-the-dragon quest for an NPC, maybe it's a I-bet-you-can't-make-it-through-the-haunted-wood-without-any-armor quest from a player with the gold to make it worth your while to try. Either way, you run out there and do something stupid, and are rewarded for success.
Maybe progress takes the form of rank, like Jiia suggested, with failure resulting in demotion or outright loss of your character. Maybe the world has a fixed amount of money, which can be neither created nor destroyed, only transferred between players or NPCs. Honor, wealth and fame are all good motivators, but a certain amount of levelling could be included. Just prevent characters from getting so ridiculously tough that they overshadow other players to a ridiculous degree.
Original post by NecroSen If you want to make a better MMORPG, start with the concept of giving power to a player. Ask yourself if one player's hours of fighting against hordes of Skeleton Badgers gives him the right to have power over others. In the sense of an RPG, yes it does, but in the sense of an online game, it's ridiculous.
Actually, in the sense of an online game, it makes an incredible amount of sense. Hint 1 - people like RPGs for a reason, whether you find them boring or 'ridiculous' or not. Hint 2 - when you have a recurring revenue business model you want players to be rewarded for time put in, not prior skill.
Original post by nefthy Why doesn't anyone make a small scale online RPG where you could get 3-6 people and play a game together. I think it would be fun.
I might be totally wrong, but isn't Guild Wars like this?
Guild Wars is like this. The towns are MMO, but when you venture out on a quest or mission, you do it alone, or with X amount of friends, or "henchmen" bots that you select or "hire" in the town. I dig it.
Original post by datxcod In most mmorpg you must spend hours leveling and killing creatures to become a "hero", it is ridiculous.It's your actions that count, not your skills/points.
It's not even close to ridiculous. It's what works well with a computer program. Try to code a subjective system in which you help out your fellow players and gain power/status that way. It's very very hard and it's wide open to abuse. People want to progress. In the end, the game designers want to reward people who spend more time playing than those who spend less. The result tends to be obvious. More time = grind = better reward. I don't say it's good or bad. It's just that subjective systems are very hard to code, hit or miss with the gaming public, and open to abuse by players if every contingency is not considered (something much easier in a level grind system).
Currently, in my mind, my view on MMORPGs has been completely skewed after watching the anime series .hack//SIGN. After that, to me, that's what a true MMORPG is like.
For those not familiar with .hack//SIGN, it presents a massive MMORPG where there is a near infinite number of areas. All areas are connected by root towns on each server and players can move freely from root town to root town. The purpose of root towns are only for social purposes and nothing else. The game itself, has no clear purpose. There is no story. There is no ultimate goal. Everyone logs in and decides to play the game the way they feel like it. Some go around aimlessly just socializing with people. Some decide to gain fame by hunting down big monsters. Some go around killing other players. Some just find areas that they like and hang out with friends. The number of NPCs are kept to a bare minimum. And as it is rightfully name, "The World", it really is nothing more than a space to play together. Before I actually started playing any MMORPGs, this series defined what an MMORPG meant for me. Imagine my disappointment at the real thing. Comparably, everything just feels restrictive.
I think sometimes its not that MMORPGs lack content, but that the developers try to make it too rich in content. I really want to challenge a developer to create one that has no content in the form of a story. Just a "world" that players can freely move around in and find things they like to do. Then occassionally hold like massive events, like holiday celebrations, etc. Some might say that it would be boring, but I think it would create quite an interesting social forum.
