(just to let you know, this is about game design, despite the strange thread name ) ------------------ Part 1: If I had some mithril... A long time ago, I once stated (though others have said it before me) that since weapons were so expensive in the old days, wouldn''t it be easier to upgrade your sword rather than buy a new one? I''m taking the idea a bit further. Many of you are familiar with FF8''s method of upgrading and remodeling weapons. I think that there should also be a feature of custom "tweaking". If the player wants, they should be allowed to make their own modifications to the weapon, either for special purposes or they just think they''re better than us at designing weapons. Taking the idea even further, we could let the player forge his own weapon. How many of you read the Dragonheart novel? Remember the peasants forging their own blades? Well, what if we let the player gather materials and create their own weapons. Heck, you never know what they could come up with (hey, if we let them do alchemy... and in the Elder Scrolls they can make their own spells). For instance, say the player has some iron or mithril on hand. And then a phoenix feather in the other. They can be combined to create a flaming sword (like in Exile III). ------------------- Part 2: But I don''t wanna gossip... I''m sure some of you have though of implementing an AI similar to The Sims at one point or another. It would allow more socializing among NPCs (remember, NPC''s are people too!), and enhance the depth of the game. For instance, say you have NPC Billy here, and he''s a good friend with NPC Bobby, but he thinks NPC Jimmy is a jerk. When you talk to him about Bobby, he has a pretty good attitude about him. Of course, if you discuss Jimmy with him, he probably mumbles something about Jimmy being a pain in the rear. For the technical among you, you could probably pull this off with a linked list. I''ve never actually tried (still busy studying my Graphics APIs... studying both DX and OGL at the same time can be a pain in the rear ). Now, don''t read too much into the Sims AI thing, you don''t have to implement hugging and kissing (but hey, whatever enhances depth... ) ----------------- Part 3: Joe Lieberman, The Democrat Pack, and heaven knows what else One of the coolest features, in RPGs, I believe, is the ability to exist in an entirely different world, and to experience a different reality. However, as cool as many RPGs are, there is one thing a great many of them lack... total freedom. I''m talking Morrowind style freedom here. The ability to stray away from the main storyline, and experience the world on your own terms. What does this have to do with Lieberman? I''m not sure, actually. Well, he''s a politician, and I once had a talk with a friend of mine (the designer on my former game team). Somewhere in the conversation, the topic of "wouldn''t it be cool if we could run for office in an RPG" came up. That spawned a series of ideas in my brain. What if you could do pretty much anything you wanted? Sure, being an adventurer is cool, but being an assasin or politican would be kind of interesting too. ------------- Part 4: That''s my life story Those of you who''ve played Daggerfall have, at one time or another, probably tried to generate your own character biography. This, in my opinion, is a truly brilliant feature (and people wonder why I want Morrowind so much ). You can, like with any idea, take this one step further. I''ll leave it to your imagination to figure out new and undoubtedly interesting possiblities, but what if you could generate your own status in society? Noble, peasant, etc. Or generate your own childhood, your family, and your town? ------------- Epilogue And thus, Darkmage came to inherit the kingdom... oh wait, sorry, I drifted off there for a moment. Anyway, these are just some cool RPG ideas, and one of many that have popped up over the years in the quest to create a richer world. And now, it''s getting pretty late (actually it''s 2:05 AM... my mom would kill me if she knew I was up this late ). See you another day... - DarkMage139 (Neokatana Software) ++++++++++++++++ "Shut up and give me the freakin code" -unknown "Ask and you will be shot" -snes16bit "Not again!" -SHilbert (upon being assimilated) "Nazrix is cool." - Nazrix "You''ve only seen the beginning" -The Dark Lord of RPGs "I''m gonna go get high on Squaresoft games" - ILoveNataliePortman

Re: Part 1: If I had some mithril...

quote: By DM139
I''m taking the idea a bit further. Many of you are familiar with FF8''s method of upgrading and remodeling weapons. I think that there should also be a feature of custom "tweaking". If the player wants, they should be allowed to make their own modifications to the weapon, either for special purposes or they just think they''re better than us at designing weapons.

Yeah its a great idea. I can understand where the desire for this is coming from. From my point of view in game design the one and only thing thats stopping this is the issue of balancing. Trying to be as specific as possible; whats is going to happen (most likely to happen) is that you will introduce a large range of hard to define game elements that will be responsible for balancing this system. It could always be done by approaching it with caution by serverly limiting how the player can modify the weapon. From here you could slowly expand the system in depth peice by peice. If you don''t do this then you risk learning nothing from a failed (or fluky success) project because its just to complicated.

But i like it, its a fantastic idea. I think it just needs to be done carefully


One more time for the dumbies
ar+gu+ment n. A discussion in which reasons are put forward in support of and against a proposition, proposal, or case; debate.

RE:RE: If I had some Mithril

First of all, you''ll need supplies for modification. Second, the really good supplies are hard to find (mithril, for instance, is extremely rare).

Or if you wanna make it even more interesting (and add some extra gameplay), you can make highly advanced weapon types illegal (government regulations). So you''d have to smuggle it or something...

- DarkMage139 (Neokatana Software)
++++++++++++++++
"Shut up and give me the freakin code" -unknown
"Ask and you will be shot" -snes16bit
"Not again!" -SHilbert (upon being assimilated)
"Nazrix is cool." - Nazrix
"You''ve only seen the beginning" -The Dark Lord of RPGs
"I''m gonna go get high on Squaresoft games" - ILoveNataliePortman

I''ll leave you to think about it for a while. I''m sure we can all come up with something interesting... :D

- DarkMage139 (Neokatana Software)
++++++++++++++++
"Shut up and give me the freakin code" -unknown
"Ask and you will be shot" -snes16bit
"Not again!" -SHilbert (upon being assimilated)
"Nazrix is cool." - Nazrix
"You''ve only seen the beginning" -The Dark Lord of RPGs
"I''m gonna go get high on Squaresoft games" - ILoveNataliePortman

RE:RE:RE: If I had some Mithril

quote: By The darkest mage 139 advanced
First of all, you''ll need supplies for modification. Second, the really good supplies are hard to find (mithril, for instance, is extremely rare).

Or if you wanna make it even more interesting (and add some extra gameplay), you can make highly advanced weapon types illegal (government regulations). So you''d have to smuggle it or something...

Gotcha, i was obviously heading off into extra complicated land. What your talking about then is altering a weapon in the same way you go up a level but the element is a game object (mithril) instead of xp?! Then you have a skill that determines how well you make use of the game object (mithril) to make your weapon. So you could have like 5 materials, some of them could be combinable to make new materials. But to use each material you need skills or something like that *shrug* yay?

That''d be pretty neat, you could even have restrictions on the skill required to use better materials for making stuff. You could quite effectivly bring encumberance back into the game then becuase the player can intelligently fiddle with that game structure.

One more time for the dumbies
ar+gu+ment n. A discussion in which reasons are put forward in support of and against a proposition, proposal, or case; debate.

What exactly is mithril? does it actually exist? i''v never heard of it in the real world... i thought it only existed in the final fantasy series... if so, wouldn''t it be copyrighted or something weird like that??? just wondering...


_________
Tsutomegi

mithral is an imaginary super metal that is silvery, lightweight, and as strong as steel. Tolkien came up with it.

quote: FF8''s method of upgrading and remodeling weapons

Your mention of that scares me. Now weapon upgrade systems are wonderful ideas, I whole-heartedly agree. The implementation of FF8''s system was a a nightmare. Parts for weapons in that game were so annoying to get a hold. I ended up beating the game with the 2nd set of weapons you get. I think Zell had the Ehrgeiz but that was it. Squall had the shear trigger...you get the idea.

Upgrade systems should be fun to use, not a chore. I like the system you described and it sounds like it''d be a blast to use. But always consider the fact that the items needed to upgrade should be relatively easy to procure. The rarity of each should relate to the power of the weapon or whatever that it is used to upgrade. Just don''t pull an FF8.

Oh bugger, i really do want to play final fantasy now. Everytime i hear a critism about it it just makes it sound like its a must have for my worst games of all time list. One of these days i might be bothered.

One more time for the dumbies
ar+gu+ment n. A discussion in which reasons are put forward in support of and against a proposition, proposal, or case; debate.

I like the non-sequitor way you began the thread.

Couple of points:

Freedom
I''m with you on this. I heard people mention this so much for RPGs that I''m starting to think it''s a fairly common wish. The major problem, though, is gameplay. Okay, so you start out as an adventurer, save the town from the cybernetic goblin hordes... and then what. You''re mayor now? Okay, so what exactly is it that you DO??? (I''ve got an answer, but it distorts the RPG into an "RPG-like," or what I call my role-playing empire game)

Item Creation
I''d actually like to see not just weapon but item invention as well. Want a flashlight on your gun? Or want to tape together a pulse rifle, tracker and flame thrower like Ripley did in Aliens? Here are the rules!!! The cool thing about item generation is it has the potential to let the player unleash their own creative freedom.

Epilogue
Actually, I''d like to SEE my character''s epilogue. You know, a summary of my great accomplishments in a fictional world? "And he died, penniless and poor, preaching to the masses about game design."

Yeeech! *ahem* that''s a bit too close for comfort... Uh, nevermind...


BTW, DM, nice formatting. I''ve got to remember that, made it easy to read!



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Just waiting for the mothership...