As you can see I want to leave the windows enviroment and join the linux world ( as far as home use is concerned ). Currently this is what I have set up: HD1 80 gb( Primary Windows Pro Partition ) HD2 80 gb( NTFS Partition: Extra Storage ) HD3 80 gb( Suse 9.1 Currently ) My plans is to completely leave the windows world as far as home use goes. Why? I believe in open source software and this is my first step in proving it. There are 3 main things holding me back: 1. I barely know linux 2. I play some PC games and do not have Cedega ( and do not want to pay, why should I have too? ) 3. Microsoft Visual Studio 2003.net ( My personal preference for C++ programming and I really don't like any other IDE's ) What do you guys suggest? I have used Solaris 9 and really want to use Solaris 10, however I see no purpose of using it if it doesn't give me what I need ex: Cedaga and MSVS. Is there any other software I can use to play the games I need and Program in the MSVS Enviroment, I know your asking, why use MSVS if he wants to support Open Source, well... from what I hear it is Industry standard to use .NET for games and that's what need to know to get the job I want. Also, which version of Linux would you suggest to use? Which version is best supported, best documented and best for the new user but technical one at the same time. So far Ubuntu has provided me the most useful and right now on a daily basis I am repartitioning my drives with a new Linux OS trying to find the one I like the most. Thanks to all suggestions/comments and ofcourse flames :)

Ok, first off this will probably end up in a flame war but as you are expressing your ideas i will express mine.

"1. I barely know linux"

Linux is not the easiest thing to use. I ran a personal lunix server for a few months and then switched it to windows simply because windows is just easier. This isnt an argument against your idea, its just me saying that I like to use what i am familiar with.


"2. I play some PC games and do not have Cedega ( and do not want to pay, why should I have too? )"

Now as a software developer i like to be able to feed myself and pay my rent. To me that is a good reason you should be paying to use my software. Why do you think there is no 'open construction' movements in building homes?


"3. Microsoft Visual Studio 2003.net ( My personal preference for C++ programming and I really don't like any other IDE's )"

So you are saying that windows meets all of your needs yet you want to switch operating systems? Since there is nothing stopping you from creating open source software on windows i see no reason for you to use Lunix.


"Also, which version of Linux would you suggest to use?"

The fact that linux has so many flavours and a total lack of standars is what turned me off of it. Well that and its lack of a registry.

Well thats my thoughts, hopefully it came off as constructive.

# Scott.h

Absolutley, it came off constructive and appreciated! :)

Thing is, the way I feel about cedaga is this: I pay for my game, I may even pay monthly for my game, why should I have to pay even more money to pay it on a differnt operating system. Maybe what I'm thinking is this and you point is more then valid and better then mine :) but... If Linux for the most part is open source ( not just FREE ) why does the software used on it have to cost money, thats all I am asking. But yes your right, you deveolped it and if you want put that big sticker saying you have to buy it to use it! It's your right!

I understand where your coming from and agree, windows is so much easier to use and in all honesty I prefer it since I have so much experiance with it. But I want the experiance with Linux to view the world outside of Microsoft. It is simply there business style I am offended by that's all, but they run everything I currently have. :) Thanks alot, any other comments?

It sounds to me like you are satisfied with Windows, but curious about Linux. I suggest you simply try installing Linux and getting a few programs running on it to get the feeling for it.

As TheDarkening mentioned, if you strongly beleive in the open source movement, there's nothing to stop you from creating open source software for Windows.

In your first paragraph I think you ran in a circle so I am not going to comment on it.

If you want to play with linux (and it is definately worth playing with) then i strongly suggest creating a duel boot system or buy a cheapo system for like $100 to run it. If you want to run a web/email server I strongly suggest getting a second system.

As for Microsoft's business style, I am not going to deffend it one bit, other then I dont agree 100% with any politicians but I still vote.

I've been using Linux for a wee while now, just on an old machine dualbooting with Win2K, no net connection. It's Fedora Core 3 I've got, by the way.

Windows 2000 is definitely easier (I'd say it even beats XP in many respects, it's more "Professional"), but Linux has a certain charm to it. It really is very nice to use as a change from Windows, even if you don't use it all the time. And it's not all that hard to use, it's getting more and more idiotproof all the time as people begin to write open source GUI's for things.

I can understand why you want to keep MSVS. Trust me, there's basically nothing in the way of decent Linux IDEs. There's one called KDevelop which is absolutely atrocious, don't touch it with a bargepole.

As for games, the little Linux desktop games are wonderful, they really are great fun. But to play your proper, retail games, you will have to pay for Cedega, and WINE isn't free to use either.

I do have some gripes about Linux though:

1) It all feels a bit cobbled together out of bits and pieces of random people's work, and there's very little standardisation between distros. But that's the beauty of open source, the diversity of it, so I can't really argue.

2) One thing that really gets me, and you will miss when you switch from Windows... no Task Manager! That REALLY irritates me, seeing as Linux Desktop environments take more CPU time than Windows, which could lead to crashes and you have no easy, obvious way of stopping rogue programs.

Hope that helps you,

ukdeveloper

[Edited by - ukdeveloper on May 31, 2005 4:08:41 PM]

Speaking from a software developers standpoint, and also from the point a person who considers himself at least a slightly sensable philosophic mind, i must question what your standpoint and beliefs are on the future and reasonings from opensource. Be it from the stigmatic mind of the GNU's communist driven leader, or from the currently emerging commercial standpoint.

GNU's (or should I say Richard Stallman's) belief is the one stating that _ALL_ software should be free. That while there can be distrobution fees, that the software itself is free and can be distributed outside of the authors control, free of charge if necessary, or sold without notification or payment to the author. This is not (in reality) the belief of the majority of power linux users, though it is held by both pragmatics and people unable to afford normal software and its necessary associated fees. This system is wholeheartedly communistic, and hence, going against capitalism. If you remember your history books, this methodology fails. For the majority of people their is not as much of a drive to release software free without a second reasoning. While the GPL/Commercial licensing does do good for licensing of libraries, outside of middleware the GPL is a direct competition to people trying to earn their livings.

Now we go to the current state of linux, and the current state of opensource. This is where large companies help fund development of opensource projects to further advance them. Of course, there is a reasoning for this! These projects are either supplement their commercial projects, or are actualy a part of them. Oftain times they are even the basis or platform for propietary toolsets (ie: Eclipse). In this state money still flows, albeit people can build on the success and shared platforms and base code which (IMHO) is the REAL quality of opensource applications that keeps it thriving. When developers can implement shared code into (or ship them to suppliment their application) they can create better solutions for individuals and companies.

Now, this software you mentioned to emulate windows programs. It was developed by a group of developers correct? The developers spent their time and hours working on it, taking the necessary overhead to their pocketbooks. Unless you are using debian, many components of your system are probably done in this matter. Linux as a platform remains free, they did not change that, they developed software to implement something linux was not intended to do (emulate windows) and they deserve to be paid for it. Hence you deserve to pay for it. As an alternative there is the WINE project though its quality is rather questionable (though improving).

As for MSVC. .NET is not the future of gaming (yet anyways), and still C++ is what is big. But lets say for the hell of it I am completely wrong (as I well may be) look into MONO on linux. and there are compilers as well. There are also very good IDE's for linux. Just do some searching.

I appreciate everyones comments thank you, I just don't want any bad flame wars coming from this. I don't think they will but since we're discussing Windows and Linux there is the greatest possibilty! hehe

Anyways, all you guys have great points in reference to both linux and windows, we all have our own opinions and by god thats they way it should be so I appreciate everyone staying simple on there explanations. I will continue to learn linux but also use Windows as my main machine. Hey i guess the greatest part about all this is that we can use both and we have the access to use both. Now if I worked for a linux distro company or microsoft that would be a different story, Newsweek "Microsoft employee gets fired for running Ubuntu on 10g partition" I can see it now lol, but anyway thanks a lot, appreciate your help!!

EDIT: BTW - I never said MSVS.NET was the future of gaming I was simply stating that it is for the most part industry standard software used for development. Again I say " for the most part " not "all". hehe

Quote: Original post by TheDarkening
Now as a software developer i like to be able to feed myself and pay my rent. To me that is a good reason you should be paying to use my software. Why do you think there is no 'open construction' movements in building homes?

I don't think you really understand open source. When you buy a house you pay for materials and the workers time - rightfully so. In exchange, you get the house, it is fully yours to change, improve, mess up - whatever you want. You do not have the builders saying that you can't paint your house or add a guest room!

Closed source software is like (perhaps I'm dragging the analogy into the ground) renting an apartment. You only live there, you can't change it. Now there is a time and place for both and nobody is saying you have no right to close your source - but open source is somthing that's good for developers, and I'll support it where I can.

Quote: Original post by ukdeveloper
2) One thing that really gets me, and you will miss when you switch from Windows... no Task Manager! That REALLY irritates me, seeing as Linux Desktop environments take more CPU time than Windows, which could lead to crashes and you have no easy, obvious way of stopping rogue programs.

top works wonders.