I've been going to post some thoughts on how to show the main character's motivation, and -get the player to share in it- for a while, but I've just found an interview with Tim Schafer that says it better from http://www.gamestudies.org/0301/pearce/

Quote:

[Tim Schafer] Celia Pearce: How do you see the relationship and the role of story in games? Tim Schafer: Games have always stressed story a lot. Besides being the part that interests me most creatively, stories also really motivational for the player, to pull you through the experience. Puzzles can be challenging, but I know I go through games a lot of times because I want to see the characters through, to solve their problems, find that character who was kidnapped and see them through to the end. So, it's about motivation. CP: In many of your games, there is some sort of dilemma that the main character is presented with at the onset of the game that propels the story forward. Often, the dilemma is very "gamey" if you will. How do you establish a dilemma that will motivate the characters through the game? TS: I think you have to do two things at once. You have to provide the character with motivation and you have to provide the player with motivation. Because the character will care about things that the player will not necessarily care about. CP: Like what? Can you give some examples? TS: Well, you end up doing these little bribes with the player. Like in Psychonauts, the new game, you're a kid at the Psychic Summer Camp. There's a girl, Lilly, at the Psychic Summer Camp with you, and she gets kidnapped. And Raz, the player character, really likes Lilly, and he wants to go off and save her. But you don't know if the player really cares because he could just run and jump around and explore the camp and never go off and find her. And so you want to make sure that Lilly actually gives you some cool power or some cool tool in the beginning of the game, as a way to bribe the player to strengthen their empathy. You can't just rely on the story empathy, you have to put in little gameplay bribes, to make them like that character and want to pursue her. .. . . . .. CP: One of the big debates that traditional writers have about interactive narrative is based on the premise that the decisions a character makes are what makes the character. So they're uncomfortable with letting a player make character decisions because that changes the character. So if you have multiple player choices, how do you think about making them consistent with the character? TS: The old LucasArts school of thought was that we never used the word "you" in design documents. We never said "you open the door," we always said "Manny opens the door." You were not the main character, and that was a big design philosophy we all shared. I still believe in that. I mean there are games like Quake where you really are the main character. And I think that's totally valid, but that's a whole different kind of game. I like to do the game where you create a character that is a wish fulfillment, is a fantasy, is interesting enough that people want to jump inside their head and run around in it. Because that's an interesting thing to provide. It's like a different vehicle, like a car with different arms and legs and you make it so compelling that people want to try it out. They start to ego-invest, they share the motivations of the character. In any good book or movie, or anything, hopefully the audience shares that motivation, so that you want what the main character wants. If it's written well, you want them to succeed. It's the same with games. So you line up player motivation and the character motivation, then you'll find them doing the same thing. And when they diverge, it's kind of interesting to the player. CP: So you try to map both the player and the main character, and think about both of them and where they overlap in their motivations. TS: Yes, because otherwise the player will be like "Manny won't do this thing. I want him to do it really bad." Or, "Manny is talking about wanting to get to that door, but I don't care about that door, I want to go down here, because it's more fun."

Any thoughts on motivating the player? along the same track as the character's goals? [Edited by - Ketchaval on May 13, 2005 9:54:14 PM]

I am not sure what you are trying to discuss, but I found what Tim said below low:

Quote:

TS: Well, you end up doing these little bribes with the player. Like in Psychonauts, the new game, you're a kid at the Psychic Summer Camp. There's a girl, Lilly, at the Psychic Summer Camp with you, and she gets kidnapped. And Raz, the player character, really likes Lilly, and he wants to go off and save her. But you don't know if the player really cares because he could just run and jump around and explore the camp and never go off and find her. And so you want to make sure that Lilly actually gives you some cool power or some cool tool in the beginning of the game, as a way to bribe the player to strengthen their empathy. You can't just rely on the story empathy, you have to put in little gameplay bribes, to make them like that character and want to pursue her.

First of all, if your story can't engage the player, then the story is weak. Secondly, getting the cool item is probably the most pathetic reason for playing a computer game. There are some parallel between the gaming and gambling industry, where both are making you pay to feel like a winner. Some of the hooks provided for inducing that emotion are insulting yet widely accepted.

One thing you can do to improve the motivation in other ways, is introducing anticipation. Let the player know that the story is about saving Lilly. Get the player mentally ready and accept the situation before it occurs. You can also starve the player by introducing an emotional debt. For example, you can make the player want to engage in a heroic act by denying the player's participation in previous situations. For example, Lilly maybe bullied before but the story presents you as a wimp that was unable to help her.

Quote:

Original post by Estok First of all, if your story can't engage the player, then the story is weak. Secondly, getting the cool item is probably the most pathetic reason for playing a computer game.

(contrarian hat on)
Yes, but post GTA 3 the buzzword is Freedom! Let the player do what they want to do as long as it involves not following the story line ;) ;).. 2. the player isn't obliged to follow the story line.3. It may not be a weak story, the player may just not give a ---- about it, ie. they are a 14 year old who just wants to frag butt.4. Think about it, you've played the game before but it is trying to get you to rescue your NPC friend, but you just want to play pool, or win some pearls, or go explore the world and take pictures of cool creatures. 5. Getting a cool, item is what many games are about. If you think about it, except by item replace it with >level, new weapons, solving fun puzzles / shooting aliens.

(Contrarian hat off)
Estok, you've made some good points there, but as you can see you can't ALWAYS rely on the player engaging with the story to send them the way you want them to go.

Re: Aligning goals

Quote:

Estok, you've made some good points there, but as you can see you can't ALWAYS rely on the player engaging with the story to send them the way you want them to go.

This is correct. But note that your original post only make sense for games where stories are important. If the game is able to stand alone without the story, this discussion won't take place. The question was how to align the player goal to the persumed character goal, in your own words, "along the same track as the character's goals?"

The goals already exist, the question is how to make the play dig the goals. I was answering that question, and said if there is a story and the story doesn't achieve this, the story is weak. I didn't say that you need to do it using the story.

Quote:

(contrarian hat on) Yes, but post GTA 3 the buzzword is Freedom! Let the player do what they want to do as long as it involves not following the story line ;) ;).. 2. the player isn't obliged to follow the story line.3. It may not be a weak story, the player may just not give a ---- about it, ie. they are a 14 year old who just wants to frag butt.4. Think about it, you've played the game before but it is trying to get you to rescue your NPC friend, but you just want to play pool, or win some pearls, or go explore the world and take pictures of cool creatures. 5. Getting a cool, item is what many games are about. If you think about it, except by item replace it with >level, new weapons, solving fun puzzles / shooting aliens. (Contrarian hat off)

Don't you think this is somewhat off your own topic? On one hand you asked how we can make the player accept the goals of the character, on the other hand you said you are trying to do something else.

At the same time I don't see any contradictions.

1) In the Lilly example, the player is teased (thus more motivated) to save Lilly, this does not take away the fact that the player can still choose to do otherwise.

2) I didn't say that the player is obliged to follow a storyline either. Again, the question was simply how to motivate the player. Don't you think that concepts such as Anticipation and Starvation work equally for open-ended games? You see this tank locked inside a military base, you want to hijack it, so you are working your way toward it. Why does it feel badass to hijack the police car?

3) I feel sorry for those 14 year-olds. But there are trivial solutions for attracting them, I didn't think you were interested in discussing those.

4) This is the same as point two, and kind of off-topic compared to what you seemed to be aiming to discuss.

5) Getting cool items are what many games are about, that is exactly why many games are pathetic and many gamers are trained into accept that kind of gaming experience. This statement work especially for rare items that are just there for the hack of it with no gameplay value. Level is probably the first-runner-up of pathetic reason for gaming. Note that this comment is very specific. I am not against letting the character level up in a game. But if you find yourself want to play the game just so that you can be the Lv100Wizard, that is a pathetic reason. New weapons are not pathetic because it directly affects gameplay experience. Solving fun puzzles is also not pathetic.