No not the prison type, but the Fantasy adventure type which is filled with convenient puzzles (think Zelda) or easily overcome "traps". I'm not writing a game like this, but reckon it would be fun to list some reasons why they would exist. So do you guys and girls have any good backstory ideas about why they exist, why they are often so easy to overcome. Etc . As well as different settings ie. instead of it being a trap filled dungeon, it is a hazard filled mine with creaking supports. Or it is a specially designed temple for an Evil god where people are put to try and escape but it is filled with nasty traps. (but why wouldn't they have inescapable traps? do they want people to escape? or just make it really hard for them). It could be a yearly religious event. Any ideas? How do we want a player to feel about having overcome a dungeon?

I suppose that it has alot to do with the storie line, time period and plot of the game. For instance, I couldnt imagen playing Zelda with Link in a space ship :P

Yes, what I'm asking is not why they are in the game (obvious reason - to have fun). But how can we integrate them into the narrative, including the fact that they are beatable by the player. I mean if you are an evil "genius" surely you would just set up inescapable traps, unless you have a reason not to. (character flaws?, being too clever to see the obvious weaknesses in your design, leaving a fail safe or secret rout for you maintenance workers).

Obviously a "dungeon" doesn't have to be a literal dungeon / cave system the actual location can be varied. I mean you could set one above ground (think of the research labs in Half-Life which are filled with trip beams and nasty things).


Likewise an inhabited base could be thought of as a "dungeon".

So got any cool ideas you'd like to share?

Dungeons usually come in two categories: wild dungeon and controlled dungeon.

Controlled dungeons are built by their inhabitants to prevent easy entry (to protect themselves or an important object or location) or exit (a prison). They were built for this purpose and obviously were equipped with traps and guards to that end. These dungeons are hard to overcome because they were specially created in order not to be overcome.

Wild dungeons were not designed by their inhabitants. They can be natural locations (such as caves), ruins (derelict spaceships, collapsing castles) or previously controlled dungeons that were abandoned by their inhabitants. These dungeons are often inhabited by what the "dungeon-dwelling" kind of monsters: those that have the intelligence to notice that more adventurers come there, so there is more loot/food/sadistic glee to be gained. This (in a fashion similar to a Krugman reasoning) explains why there are lots of different types of opportunistic monsters in a given wild dungeon. These dungeons are also easier to overcome than controlled dungeons, since usually they were not equipped professionally to destroy intruders (or, if they were once, most of the devious traps have crumbled to dust or were sprung by other adventurers), were not built to work in conjunction with the current inhabitants (a black pudding or a ghoul will not be able to use a murder hole as good as a trained soldier), and lack the trained personnel with sufficient teamwork (not to mention the opportunistic inhabitants of a wild dungeon are often scavengers and do not like to help out their competitors against a foe that's too strong).

In most games, dungeons are places where subterranean creatures live. They aren't that easily overcome: you're meant to assume that your character is particularly good at getting past dungeon defenses. And of course, since there are creatures living in it, the defenses can't be so lethal that they'd all kill themselves.

For mines and underground temples, you already have a backstory: it's a mine or an underground temple.

Lots of fantasy games feature crypts. These will usually be more difficult to get into and out of, because the builders don't have to plan on people walking around them.

naturally occuring caves.

http://www.mudconnect.com/articles/dm/dcrawl2.html

Well, usually the best source of inspiration is to look at reality [grin]
I dunno about the States, but in Europe for instance, and in Paris in particular, there are quite a few types of underground sites that can provide some inspiration.
Les Catacombes de Paris, for a start, are a massive network of underground tunnels. I am not a specialist but originally most of them were quarries used to extract rocks to build the city. Later they were used to pile up bones. Nowadays they are supposedly closed to the public (right...)
Some pictures
But more importantly, how the catacombs were formed(yes it's all in French, but look at the pictures!)
Urban speleology (or is it spelunking?)
Some other website on underground constructions. My point is, you'd be surprised the stuff you can find if you do some research.
And are able to extrapolate from there.
And those links above are just the catacombs.
Now add to that the sewer system, the subway system, the natural caves, the basements (people could have dugged underground connections between adjoining basements during WWII) and that's just Paris!

Wish I had more time, but I hope this will do for now :)

Lets not forget Jedi Knight II: Jedi Outcast (the one where youre the beareded guy who has to retrain to get his Jedi mojo back .. at least I think that was II ..) Theres a section in the game where you gotta go through some funky traning grounds (read: dungeon) in order to qualify for the light saber. The premise: its a training ground! So naturally its doable and easy and very puzzle like. :)

Just an idea that popped into my head on reading the post;

Reasoning behind arbitrary, rat-in-a-maze type dungeons; they're "spell structures". This kind of concept appears in numerous fantasy books/stories - magic of whatever sort is based on architectures, webs/weaves, structures/frameworks, etc. A building could be laid out so as to enhance/implement a spell of some sort.

Likewise for dungeons (in the classic, "constructed underground maze" sense) - they might simply be the leftover (or active) debris of industrial-scale spellcasting.

This device should give you plenty of freedom to explain away arbitrary layouts and complexity in these man-made dungeons that might otherwise impact suspension of disbelief. It might also allow for other interesting effects - eg, random magical effects and conditions in certain parts of a structure, etc. The various guards and hazards contained within might simply be recent squatters, or maybe the owner/constructor placed them so as to protect the integrity of the structure. You could also get into interesting territory if the protagonist can activate and/or destroy the magic of the structure.

Just a suggestion, might go some way to explaining otherwise pointless-seeming "dungeons" scattered around a landscape.

I could imagine Link in a space ship. I actually think that could make a fun game if you put Link in a future based story with only the skills Link would have in the regular games. It would be a new twist. Just think, "Zelda: Futures"