I'm working on designing an RPG (not sure if I'll actually have time to do it), and I had an idea for a new way to do HP and health. Basically, each player starts with 100% HP, and a certain amount of SP, or Stamina. Stamina reflects the ability to shrug off minor damage--think the "It's just a flesh wound!" line in Monty Python and the Holy Grail. However, HP represents taking actual physical damage--internal bleeding, concussions, etc. Stamina can be healed simply by sleeping, while HP must be healed by a visit to the hospital, or through the use of special items like "First-aid kit" for example. When a character takes damage in battle, the character will burn through Stamina first, then start taking HP damage. As HP decreases, the character's stats begin to decrease along with it. For example, if a character has 10 stamina and 100% HP and takes thirty points of damage, he would lose all ten SP and 20% HP, and temporarily loses two stat points from strength and agility. Would this be an OK idea, or would it be too much of a penalty for characters with low stamina? [Edited by - Brokenimage on April 6, 2005 12:05:35 PM]

This sounds like a good idea, but instead of % HP, I think you should keep track of HP in the regular way (that is, a number that can change). Maybe your HP won't increase in the epic way of D&D levels, but it should probably increase some over time still.
Also, instead of -2 for 20% HP missing, you'd probably want to do some kind of percentage points correlation curve, so that 20% HP missing means 5% strength missing, and 95% HP missing means 95% sterngth missing. This way it affects all characters equally (stronger characters lose more strength, but they keep more too), and a little HP loss isn't too bad while a lot is REALLY bad. Note that for this part, you're using HP as a % of total HP, but for the stat itself I think it should be just a regular number.

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Original post by Extrarius This sounds like a good idea, but instead of % HP, I think you should keep track of HP in the regular way (that is, a number that can change). Maybe your HP won't increase in the epic way of D&D levels, but it should probably increase some over time still.

I disagree, at least in terms of HP increasing over time. As characters get tougher and more experienced, I think stamina should increase, but hit points should be constant, as while some people are better at shrugging off damage, for the most part there is very little variance in terms of what can kill us, and a greater pool of stamina to draw from first would do enough to make some people harder to kill than others.

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Original post by fearghaill Quote: Original post by Extrarius This sounds like a good idea, but instead of % HP, I think you should keep track of HP in the regular way (that is, a number that can change). Maybe your HP won't increase in the epic way of D&D levels, but it should probably increase some over time still. I disagree, at least in terms of HP increasing over time. As characters get tougher and more experienced, I think stamina should increase, but hit points should be constant, as while some people are better at shrugging off damage, for the most part there is very little variance in terms of what can kill us, and a greater pool of stamina to draw from first would do enough to make some people harder to kill than others.

I think Extrarius is taking the "let's give the player sence of acomplishment aproach", you are giving it the "realist" approach. Depends on the kind of game you want to make, and if you want to sell it, the kind of game depends on your target audience.

Besides, the improvement that characters get in RPGs are supposed to simulate the effect of the exercise and experience that fighting gives. Exercise is good for your health right? including internal organs :p it be some kind of crappy excuse to give the player for it.

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Original post by Coz Quote: Original post by fearghaill Quote: Original post by Extrarius This sounds like a good idea, but instead of % HP, I think you should keep track of HP in the regular way (that is, a number that can change). Maybe your HP won't increase in the epic way of D&D levels, but it should probably increase some over time still. I disagree, at least in terms of HP increasing over time. As characters get tougher and more experienced, I think stamina should increase, but hit points should be constant, as while some people are better at shrugging off damage, for the most part there is very little variance in terms of what can kill us, and a greater pool of stamina to draw from first would do enough to make some people harder to kill than others. I think Extrarius is taking the "let's give the player sence of acomplishment aproach", you are giving it the "realist" approach. Depends on the kind of game you want to make, and if you want to sell it, the kind of game depends on your target audience. Besides, the improvement that characters get in RPGs are supposed to simulate the effect of the exercise and experience that fighting gives. Exercise is good for your health right? including internal organs :p it be some kind of crappy excuse to give the player for it.

Would there be no sense of accomplishment in increasing stamina, as I suggested? Under the original poster's definition, that would increase the amount of damage they could shrug off with little ill effect. Far from realistic, I think this would make for a more cinematic feel than anything else.

More realistic would be having only health, and stamina (or pain tolerance, or whatever) being the amount of health loss a person could endure before penalties started kicking in - they'd die just as quick in most cases, but it wouldn't slow them down until it was fairly severe. For example, a person with a Stamina of 20 would and health at 65% would suffer the same would penalties as a wuss with a stamina of 5 and a health of 80%.

Yep, there would be sense of acomplishment, but by increasing the HP you give the player even more :p
Like, every level you increase a little the stamina and every 5 levels you increase a little the HP. Increasing the HP would give the player a better sense of acomplishment because it doesn't happens so frequent.

I would say that more fit people can shrug off more damage, but REALLY fit people can take more real damage. A fit person getting hit by a car isn't shrugging anything off, but if they're well built etc I'd bet they have a better chance of survival (less likely to break bones because they've been strengthened by resistance over time, etc). It might not be realistic (I don't really know), but it makes sense and I'd like it more that way as a player.
Again, I'm not saying do like D&D and make HP increase by large amounts every level, but maybe 2 points a level (starting at 100 as stated). It doesn't make much of a difference at lower levels, but over time when you start getting really powerfull you'll also notice you can take some more damage as well.

Why not call stamina HP, and have the physical damage system take the form of a wound model, like in Fallout? Maybe you don't drop dead at 0 HP, but you're sitting on the ground, gasping for breathe, and so weak you can't lift your gun, so the other guy just has to step over there and perform the coup de grace.

Injuries could occur as the result of "critical hits", so a single rifle round could be enough to whack you, but if you have enough "HP", then it could give your character the presence of mind, resilience and straight-up luck to dodge a few inches after seeing the muzzle flash, or sneeze just then, or bend over to kiss the cheek of a veteran. Maybe your HP (or other attributes) would actually have a negative impact on the skill of your enemies, effectively making you harder to shoot.

d20 modern and Star Wars RPG actually take a similar approach.

HP = Constitution score. This only changes if the CON score changes (rare)

Wounds = X + Constitution bonus per level, where X is a die roll of a type determined by your job class (after all, a smuggler is a bit tougher on average than a diplomat)

I agree with the health not going further than 100 (my game will be this way) because as stated before, it is plain dumb that you have more health capabilities over time. it is understandable that a sword will not kill you if your skin is now rock-like, but if the hit goes through it doesn't sound right that you have more "health" to resist critical hits and be able to have more wounds than a normal person

I think the accomplishment should come from "hey look, those hits don't take as much health as before because I'm more resistant to them" and not "hey look, those hits take the same health as before but I don't care because I have twice the health"