Hello Guys and Gals, I'm doing a little market research. How many of you like 2D space shooters? Yes, I fully realize that it seems like the genre has been done and done to death. However, besides the million-and-one substandard space shooters on PC, are there really that many good ones? Yes, there's R-type, Gradius, Galaga, Galaxian, Defender, Silpheed, and a few other great classics.. But, compared to other genres, there really aren't that many top-notch space shooters. A lot of the more recent shooters seem to rely entirely on eye-candy (with 3d backgrounds being huge), yet few have innovated (with Ikaruga being an exception). What do you think? Is there room on the PC for another "classic" space shooter? Is this something you would consider buying if it were available? Or, is the market so flooded with crap, that it would be impossible to draw your attention? Forget everything you know about lackluster PC space shooters that use and abuse anti-aliasing, and backgrounds that clash so much with the player that it's difficult to find yourself. No, instead, remember a time of high quality shooters. Are you ready for another .... *gasp* ... Gates of Thunder? The next Galaga? (some might call this heresy). Any and all comments are welcome. Positive, great. Negative, even better. Also, how about some cool feature you might like to see in such a game? Or perhaps annoyances with other shooters you've played. And finally, am I tugging at some nostalgic string here, and you would consider buying a _good_ shooter, or am I just beating a dead horse and the space shooter realm should be laid to rest? Btw: Please concentrate on my questions, and not whether or not I can deliver the stuff I speak of. I'll worry about that.. :D Thanks, Greg

I like them. I'm currently making one myself (off and on). I think we need to see some form of innovation to keep it alive, whether that comes in the form of better AI (no set patterns), team-based play (fly with several people in a formation) or some other unique idea (aka: Ikaruga)

What do you have in mind for your game?

I like them as well, and also agree that some more innovation would be a big help, rather than just following the standard formula. I also think there's a lot more room for multiplay in this genre, for some games with new ideas and/or different implementations, alongside the popular Subspace/Continuum (hey, waddaya know, a viable MMO genre that can often be less complex than an RPG [wink]).

The controls should be kept nice and simple, as much as possible - new games of this type seem to have more and more keys mapped to functions you'll rarely if ever use, but are forced to learn for the one time you MUST use them - it's annoying - keep the controls nice and simple. Joystick support is a good thing.

I think there's definitely room for a good 2D shooter. I play some Deimos Rising, and there's no substitute for a fun 2D shooter. Ikaruga's combo system and polarity feature added a lot to the frantic pace and intuitive feel of the game, but it always felt like there was one "right way" to do each level, and if you deviated from the razor's edge you weren't "doing it right". That bugged me.

So I want some randomization, so that memorization of enemy patterns isn't the best or only way to excel at the game. One of my favorite incarnations of the genre was "Mission X" for the Intellivision. It had a 2.5D system (vertical scrolling) where your altitude determined your susceptibility to attacks and the effectiveness of your weapons. You could fly under enemy planes and drop bombs in quick salvos, or you could soar high above the ground to avoid AA fire while releasing single explosives with surgical precision. four directions, a climb button, a dive button, a bomb button and a machinegun button were all it needed. Fun stuff, and I haven't really seen it implemented lately. I think having more than 8x8 icons for graphics would help, too.

Other neat and unobtrusive features include the "loop" from 1945, the stat-building and map navigation from U.N. Squadron, weapon charging from Mars Rising and Deimos Rising, power-ups from R-Type et al, choplifting from Choplifter and the "Ghouls and Ghosts"-type character transformations from Legendary WIngs.

One thing I DON'T like about some shooters is the tendency to start you at square one after you die. If I've been going for hourse without dying and amassing huge stockpiles of boosts, then one explosion divests me of them, it's over for me. I can't face having zero power-ups at an advanced level, because I know it'll just be four more quick deaths. Either end the game after that one decisive death, or make it possible to recoup the loss is a speedy way. Mars/Deimos Rising has all your collected boosts and bonuses fly out of your exploding ship, so that your reincarnation or your partner can collect them, if they're quick.

Edit: And look into a mouse/keyboard-type control scheme. Being able to click-fire an omni-directional "phaser beam" would be pretty cool, if implemented properly (not over- or under-powered).

Iron CC,
That's funny. I was actually just thinking of a system like the one you described for Mission X. However, I wasn't how sure such a method would work.

Here's something I was considering:
You have 3 viewports. The first one is on the top-left corner of the screen and is a top-down view. This view takes up a majority of the screen. Then, on the right, there is a small ship status on top, and below that is a side view. The side view is simplified in that it is perhaps just a grid with the space ships on it. You would mainly play on the top-down view, but, like you said, buttons to dive and climb. Your altitude could be guaged by the side view. That being said, I'm not sure if this would complicate things too much, so I pretty much thought of dropping it..

I also agree that starting from zero is plain unfair. Sometimes you acquire some awesome weapons, die, and start with nothing. A couple of alternatives would be to have powerups appear more often (or better ones anyway). Another method would be to give you a standard gun per level (kinda like Silpheed for PS2.. however, that game annoyed me because it had no powerups).

Kazgoroth,
Simple controls are a must! You've hit it right on. I think that any space shooter should be able to be played with a 4-button gamepad. I think anything more than that ends up being exactly what you described... over complicated.

evolutional,
I'm actually throwing around a bunch of different ideas. However, I'm trying to keep in mind to keep it simple, fun, and old-school (in the good ways) as much as possible. Good luck on your game!


Thanks for the replies, guys!

-Greg

Quote:

Iron Chef Carnage said: One thing I DON'T like about some shooters is the tendency to start you at square one after you die.

Axelay and Phalanx for SNES actually have systems where when you take damage, you loose one of your weapons instead of instantly dying and having to start over (which i also hate).

I think what the 2D Shooter Genre needs now is greater versatility, we have alot of games that pick up an idea and run with it but it may be time to create a game that has alot of features built into it. A Game where you can outfit your ship to your choosing and gather powerups to buy them (ala gradius). Some missions involving saving people, or maybe even landing/docking and getting out of your ship (Metal Warriors style) to capture/steralize an area. Mix the freedom of choice liberally and you could end up with a fun Mercenary style game. ;D

Interesting ideas, Gyrthok. Now I'm thinking of a whole bunch of different ideas. I really like the idea of having your ship land, and maybe a little guy jumps out or something. Perhaps there is a wall blocking your passage and you are unable to blast through it. The game gives you a warning that there is an impassible wall ahead. You land your ship and sneak down through a tunnel to the other side. You plant a bomb and run back to your ship... wall explodes and you pass through. Ok, my idea was kinda stupid, but I can definitely see potential.

-Greg