I've been hashing out several ideas with you guys for months, and the strongest shape that's emerging is looking like The Game of Life (the board game) with an adventurous, futuristic setting. It would be part freeform gameplay, like a GTA meets Freelancer, centered around leveling and dealing with free-roaming adversaries who reveal the game's story. The challenging part right now is how to integrate the life stuff. I'm trying to avoid a Sims-like approach because that would get routine and boring fast. (I want to cut to the highlights, not work up to them.) At the same time, I'm having trouble getting away from declining resources (like money, the cost of basic survival) because it's a powerful motivator and the resource rechargers in the world, that might otherwise be meaningless, become incredibly more concrete. (Ex: Gun shops mean someting if you need ammo; restaurants if you need food; gas stations if you need fuel) The mockup I'm doing right now focuses on the highlights and pitfalls of life. I'm using cards to represent challenges and opportunities. You choose how to move around a grid that's marked with different challenges and opportunities (this represents areas you can choose to enter or avoid in the real game). Challenges represent the life philosophy that if you overcome them, you get a resource (like knowledge), but if you fail, you lose something (like morale). Opportunities, OTOH, symbolize some bonus you can get, but only if you're prepared (like having the knowledge to impress a VIP). The map is marked with different challenges and opportunity squares, symbolizing that if you can stay afloat long enough, you can learn from the challenges and move into the opportunities that will level you into the kind of character you want to be. Part of the core game focuses on survival, so as you play, your money resource is dropping every turn. This puts pressure on you to make wise moves as you try to max out your resources.

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The challenges and opportunities play out very much like random events with mini-stories. There are simple things, like winning free concert tickets (a chance to raise the regard someone has of you if you invite them); out of the blue things, like a long lost relative leaving you a package; or more complex things, like gaining the ear of a leader, which controls events in the rest of the story. Two problems: It's impossible to animate every event; I also want a uniform presentation so that you know it's the game doing something rather than some mistake you've made. What's the best way to do this?

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One thought is to actually use cards, in a kind of fortune teller motif. The cards would flip onto the screen and expand into a text box with a title, picture, story-snippet, and challenge or opportunity choices. My hesitation is that this is a bit abrupt and unexpected. So how about cards that you pick up in the game world? For this to NOT be totally out of context, the game would have to have a fate / fortune teller kind of over-theme ("what's your future?"). The problem with this idea is that it's slightly out of context anyway because there are some cards you shouldn't be able to avoid (life just happens, deal) I could imbed the cards in a bunch of different objects and characters (like triggers), but I don't want you getting paranoid about picking stuff up. Ultimately, I need something that says, "if you go in this area, sh*t could happen"; but if you stay in this area, you can do what you want (freeform gameplay); BUT!!! because of your choices, sometimes the areas can change (such as enemies seeking you out in your once safe home where nothing used to happen).

how about a little "hand of fate" icon that shows up on a corner somewhere.
like the status reports in Total War series. you can click it and read about the
opportunity/challenge. you can choose to ignore the fact and continue playing as you like or think about how you can use the info. maybe a include ponderings or hunches of the character

"hm... as I enter my house, something feels strange. A strange unease passes like the soft whisper of death at my shoulder"

this could mean potential trouble up ahead. although this style might be too much deus ex machina for your taste.

I think a good place to put these kind of events or whatever you would like
to call them would be when you are travelling from one area to another, at
least if hyperspace travelling in Straylight is going to be anything like EV.
Of course, this is not very consistent with the model that you described but
I think it would give the game a nice "rythm". Keep it simple, if you know
what I mean.

Once and for all, pardon my poor Englisg and may the force be with you,

Sebastian Jensen

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Original post by Wavinator I've been hashing out several ideas with you guys for months, and the strongest shape that's emerging is looking like The Game of Life (the board game) with an adventurous, futuristic setting. It would be part freeform gameplay, like a GTA meets Freelancer, centered around leveling and dealing with free-roaming adversaries who reveal the game's story.

Well I thought I had an idea what kind of game you where making but now I'm not sure anymore.

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The challenging part right now is how to integrate the life stuff. I'm trying to avoid a Sims-like approach because that would get routine and boring fast. (I want to cut to the highlights, not work up to them.) At the same time, I'm having trouble getting away from declining resources (like money, the cost of basic survival) because it's a powerful motivator and the resource rechargers in the world, that might otherwise be meaningless, become incredibly more concrete. (Ex: Gun shops mean someting if you need ammo; restaurants if you need food; gas stations if you need fuel) The mockup I'm doing right now focuses on the highlights and pitfalls of life. I'm using cards to represent challenges and opportunities. You choose how to move around a grid that's marked with different challenges and opportunities (this represents areas you can choose to enter or avoid in the real game). Challenges represent the life philosophy that if you overcome them, you get a resource (like knowledge), but if you fail, you lose something (like morale). Opportunities, OTOH, symbolize some bonus you can get, but only if you're prepared (like having the knowledge to impress a VIP).

What if instead of declining resources you use a cost of action structure? So instead of loosing 100 credits and 10 fuel per turn, instead of you want to pursue a space mission such as "cargo run" there is a cost of action associated with this which may be 10 fuel and 100 credits in crew wages. In this way the player doesn't use resources points because of a sense of constant loss but as means to ensure they are able to undertake any interesting actions that turn up.

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The challenges and opportunities play out very much like random events with mini-stories. There are simple things, like winning free concert tickets (a chance to raise the regard someone has of you if you invite them); out of the blue things, like a long lost relative leaving you a package; or more complex things, like gaining the ear of a leader, which controls events in the rest of the story. Two problems: It's impossible to animate every event; I also want a uniform presentation so that you know it's the game doing something rather than some mistake you've made. What's the best way to do this? One thought is to actually use cards, in a kind of fortune teller motif. The cards would flip onto the screen and expand into a text box with a title, picture, story-snippet, and challenge or opportunity choices. My hesitation is that this is a bit abrupt and unexpected. So how about cards that you pick up in the game world? For this to NOT be totally out of context, the game would have to have a fate / fortune teller kind of over-theme ("what's your future?"). The problem with this idea is that it's slightly out of context anyway because there are some cards you shouldn't be able to avoid (life just happens, deal) I could imbed the cards in a bunch of different objects and characters (like triggers), but I don't want you getting paranoid about picking stuff up. Ultimately, I need something that says, "if you go in this area, sh*t could happen"; but if you stay in this area, you can do what you want (freeform gameplay); BUT!!! because of your choices, sometimes the areas can change (such as enemies seeking you out in your once safe home where nothing used to happen).

hmmm... I'm not sure about this whole card thing it doesn't seem connected to the rest of the game as you've presented it thus far.

In regards to the card scheme forgetting about the presentation for now, I think it makes sense to have multiple sets, for instance there could be core space, outer rim space, exploration space, exploration planet, developed planet, undeveloped planet. The time of set you draw from would be determined by the area you are currently in, there should also be different levels of within the sets so you the player could choose to explore relatively well known part of space and draw from level 3 space exploration deck, or head off into the great to the part of the map simply labeled "Here be seiger" and draw from the level 10 space exploration deck. In this way the player is able to gauge the relative level of risk and reward.

Various factors could be used to modify the level of deck the player can draw from, for instance maybe those concert tickets you gave to a the son of a local politician has risen your influence on that planet and you know draw from the level 2 developed planet deck. That said I'm not sure if you have read a series of books called "The chronicles of Amber" by Roger Zelazny, but in them there where essentially a family from place called amber who could travel through the infinite other realties through will power alone. There was also an idea in the books that the longer they spent in these other realties called shadows because they where only poor imitations of the only real place, the more real the place became. Maybe you could use this concept in the card and deck aspect of the game. So the longer you spend in one place the higher the level of the deck you draw from. Maybe every 4 weeks spent in the same place causes the deck level to increase by one. This is because of the fact that you are a core keeper and are unconsciously reshaping the world around you. It also reflects your growing influence within the area and increased chance of attracting the attention of another core keeper. You may even want to have a set of cards for core keeper events, that the player draws from because of certain actions, staying one place for 4 weeks could be one.

As to how to present these cards to the player…. I’m just not sure. You could use a card system to so the player is presented with like you said a grid of with different symbols and values representing the different actions available to the player in the given area, the symbols reflecting the different card sets and the values the number and levels of cards drawn. Hmm what if you incorporated this into your 9 point alignment system? At different time the player must make a moral choice, the player is presented with nine different cards arranged in around the moral compass these cards may be either face up or face down, what ever choice the player makes will affect the morality of their character and determine the resulting obstacle or opportunity because of this. If you could expand the card concept this could be a very good non scripted way develop a character morally. Do you continue you down the “lawful good” path and take the level 4 developed planet card or do take a little turn of “chaotic evil” path and take level 8 planetary exploration card.

It might work, but there are still a lot of factors to consider…

You know, you might want to consider of some sort of 'avatar reaction' such as a sudden shudder as if anticipating danger or challenge to over come (a range of negatives) that is like an 'anticapatory' cue to the player regarding what is coming up next, and some sort of opposite case where they hum or whistle innocuously as a cue to the good side of life, and maybe a middel ambivilent, almost a 'meh' cue from the avatar. Just so there is a visible, or audial or behavioral foresight or prognosticative method of cueing the player to what is up next, rather than a pictorial or symbolic (which is used heavily; not that that is a negative) approach.

Since it is in the future, plausibility suggests a simple psychism device, like even something as simple as a mood ring indicator of extrinsic sources of impending negative, positive or mutable content ahead. Breaking this down into really challenging the player to percieve clues could be subtly done by a distant whimper, or laughter or meh of an NPC of either human or animal/alien type. Remeber that music moves movies, so this is an established forshadowing technique, which is really what I think your problem def is - letting the player know before going in what lies ahead.

HTH,
Adventuredesign

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Original post by yapposai how about a little "hand of fate" icon that shows up on a corner somewhere. like the status reports in Total War series. you can click it and read about the opportunity/challenge. you can choose to ignore the fact and continue playing as you like or think about how you can use the info. maybe a include ponderings or hunches of the character

Hey, I like this as a possibility. Maybe there's some kind of indicator telling how far off an event is, its nature, and how drastic it will be.

It's a bit odd, but I actually like a bit a touch of mystical mystery in a sci-fi universe. It does make you kind of psychic, but that could fit with the theme ("you've always been odd" is the premise for getting you into the optional story.)

If something coming is unavoidable, maybe this should be a different kind of "hand of fate?"

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Original post by Madvillain I think a good place to put these kind of events or whatever you would like to call them would be when you are travelling from one area to another, at least if hyperspace travelling in Straylight is going to be anything like EV.

I'd thought of keeping this to transitions, but I was hoping for a bit more spontaneity. Remembering EV, though, I do remember that sometimes you just got picked on when you docked ("strange men are following you" and what not).

It MIGHT work as a boundary transition only, but then what would you do indoors (space stations & such)?

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Original post by Wavinator Hey, I like this as a possibility. Maybe there's some kind of indicator telling how far off an event is, its nature, and how drastic it will be. ... If something coming is unavoidable, maybe this should be a different kind of "hand of fate?"

I awas thinking about the this paragraph

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Original post by Wavinator The challenges and opportunities play out very much like random events with mini-stories. There are simple things, like winning free concert tickets (a chance to raise the regard someone has of you if you invite them); out of the blue things, like a long lost relative leaving you a package; or more complex things, like gaining the ear of a leader, which controls events in the rest of the story.

The hand of fate was the image I thought of for a uniform presentation.
I do not think that including an indicator of how drastic or how far away the action will be is a good idea. The player must figure out for themselves based on the clues on the mini-story. the musings and "bad omen" are there to give warning to the player that can not be told without giving too much away

ie:
"a package comes, from long lost uncle ben... hmmm... haven't heard from him since I was a kid [open package][scan package for explosives][shoot mailman]"

"ahh.. life is good. Senator Riley is a powerful man. Glad to have him on my side. Maybe I'll drop by his office sometime" - this implies that the player can seek the help of the leader in the future (although not 100% sure). It also does not restrict the player to an action and time only a possibility that the player can choose to use anytime.

"hmm.. odd, I was sure I left the lights off when I left [hmm.. must be getting senile] [draw gun and open door]" - possiblity of danger . increases player tension. make sure that positive and negative events fail at some time to keep the player off balance, other wise everytime a negative event pops up I ready my blasters. it would be nice to be have wrong hunches every now and then. "SURPRISE! Happy birthday! ehem.. why are you pointing the gun at me?"

although, too much random events or wrong hunches might cause boy-who-cried-wolf syndrome.

the main point I think is the optional nature of the events. I can choose ignore the event or make the most of the information given.

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Original post by TechnoGoth Well I thought I had an idea what kind of game you where making but now I'm not sure anymore.

Meh. You're not the only one! If it means anything, the star I'm guided by is called "convey human interest." That's why I put so much work into personality, moral dispositions, and social gameplay. I refuse to resort to story alone. (In the beginning this was all about cool spaceships, and I scrapped THAT because, like most games, it was a game about objects.)

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What if instead of declining resources you use a cost of action structure? So instead of loosing 100 credits and 10 fuel per turn, instead of you want to pursue a space mission such as "cargo run" there is a cost of action associated with this which may be 10 fuel and 100 credits in crew wages. In this way the player doesn't use resources points because of a sense of constant loss but as means to ensure they are able to undertake any interesting actions that turn up.

I'll try this but instinct tells me it fails to act as a driver that makes you appreciate survival. Time would flow continuously but you could stand around in an open-ended setting doing nothing. That's my near-worst nightmare.

I may be missing the mark, however. The focus on financial survival could be TOO aggressive.

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hmmm... I'm not sure about this whole card thing it doesn't seem connected to the rest of the game as you've presented it thus far.

Agreed. Thematically it *might* be integrated if the game was about persuing a possible fate. The story has as a central theme control of your own fate versus overpowering forces, but fortune cards may be clumsy.

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In regards to the card scheme forgetting about the presentation for now, I think it makes sense to have multiple sets, for instance there could be core space, outer rim space, exploration space, exploration planet, developed planet, undeveloped planet.

Yes, this is what I have right now! It makes for a ton of decks for testing, but keeps context.

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Various factors could be used to modify the level of deck the player can draw from, for instance maybe those concert tickets you gave to a the son of a local politician has risen your influence on that planet and you know draw from the level 2 developed planet deck.

I like this. I wanted behavior (in terms of location picking) to be a driver, and your behavior as a character as a modifier would make game actions all the more significant.

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Hmm what if you incorporated this into your 9 point alignment system? At different time the player must make a moral choice, the player is presented with nine different cards arranged in around the moral compass these cards may be either face up or face down, what ever choice the player makes will affect the morality of their character and determine the resulting obstacle or opportunity because of this. If you could expand the card concept this could be a very good non scripted way develop a character morally. Do you continue you down the “lawful good” path and take the level 4 developed planet card or do take a little turn of “chaotic evil” path and take level 8 planetary exploration card.

I see your mind reading skills are advancing! [wink] I've been thinking about representing moral and self-development choices as a kind of non-scripted leveling and event triggering mechanism. Who you are as a person determines how you handle what happens to you.

I think this clear stance on focus helps resolve the alarms that you guys have been raising about purpose (or "what the hell am I supposed to be doing in this game!")

The game would be telling you, "learn, adventure, grow" but not how to do it, only providing gameplay. This I hope might alay the disorientation you'd have if you thought the game was just about spacecraft.

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Original post by adventuredesign You know, you might want to consider of some sort of 'avatar reaction' such as a sudden shudder as if anticipating danger or challenge to over come (a range of negatives) that is like an 'anticapatory' cue to the player regarding what is coming up next, and some sort of opposite case where they hum or whistle innocuously as a cue to the good side of life, and maybe a middel ambivilent, almost a 'meh' cue from the avatar. Just so there is a visible, or audial or behavioral foresight or prognosticative method of cueing the player to what is up next, rather than a pictorial or symbolic (which is used heavily; not that that is a negative) approach. Since it is in the future, plausibility suggests a simple psychism device, like even something as simple as a mood ring indicator of extrinsic sources of impending negative, positive or mutable content ahead. Breaking this down into really challenging the player to percieve clues could be subtly done by a distant whimper, or laughter or meh of an NPC of either human or animal/alien type. Remeber that music moves movies, so this is an established forshadowing technique, which is really what I think your problem def is - letting the player know before going in what lies ahead.

You know, technically it doesn't have to be explained, it could just happen as a function of the UI (like you say, mood ring). I want to stay away from huge animation requirements, but humanistic touches are going to be necessary to convey mood.

The vague cues could be really fun to work out, and would fit with the theme of you being weird. (Story-wise it could work perfectly, because you've supposedly got a god-like AI growing inside you)