Well, with the exception ot the tekken games and counter-strike, this is more of a "top 10 games every turn-based strategy/RPG game devloper should play" list. Not that I'm complaining, you've listed some of my all time favorite games.

Oh, and...

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8) Tekken 3, 4 and tag – PS1 and PS2 -The Tekken series is an excellent series of games that does it job very well. It has easy to use controls, intuitive moves, plus a larger variety of different characters, and moves to learn and use. All and all it is well balanced game, with no obvious flaws and is good place to look if you want to see what a well polished game should look like.

I have a serious flaw for you. Fighting (gameplay) is reduced to getting the first hit and juggling your way to victory. I've always liked the Tekken series for its graphics, characters, and story line, but as far as fighting goes these games are simply terrible. You want a real fighting game, play the original Super Smash Brothers (N64). While it doesn't have the amazing character animations and graphics of DOA or the variety and freakin' sweet levels of melee, it is simply an unparalleled experience in the fighting game genre. The game comes down to pure skill.

Granted I didn't read every post word for word, but I've only seen mention of computer games.

Computer (or console) games are not a league of their own- they have close cousins, and often ones they are more nearly related to than other computer games, in table top and live games. It's important for a designer to have a good grasp on what's out there in the computer world, but if you play one of each category you'll have a fine idea of what they're about- and generally realize how unimpressive most of them are. Clones, replicates, derivatives- almost all of them are- of the classics. There are only a couple game genres quite unique to computers; most notably simulations (like sim city) and to some small extent twitch based games found in the early platformers (sonic, Mario, etc)- though twitch games also derive themselves from real world games like pinball and its predecessors (if sonic spinball isn't obvious enough a throwback to their origins I don't know what is).

Otherwise, there are RPGs- hailing from novels, and the oldest story telling among bored groups of friends. Play some of the original table top RPGs and even look into larping. You'll learn more about the raw mechanics behind the predecessors of all Computer RPGs that way than examining their computerized clones- times have changed quite a bit, and the simplification and mutation that occurred in the transfer from pen and paper to computer needn't be further embraced; re-evaluate the roots of these games, you may be surprised with what you find. Even 'play' some choose your own adventure type books (there are quite a few of them) and experience storytelling in the raw.

And for puzzles, sure, games like Zelda are awesome (IMO among the best computer games there are), but evaluate table top puzzle games too- there are a bunch of really wacky ones out there. The complicated simplicity of these games is incomparable, and often easily integrated into a computer game without exasperating the game rules and frustrating the player.

For strategy, fall back on the oldest strategy games there are- chess, go, checkers- learn how they work, what makes them so fun, and most importantly why they have sustained for hundreds of years.

1&2. simulation (Sim City, and maybe a FPS of some kind)
3&4. twitch based (Sonic, Mario)
5&6. pen and paper RPG (D&D, Shadowrun)
7&8. puzzles (Zelda, Lemmings)
9&10. strategy- (Chess, Go)

That's what I'd say for ten games... Just don't forget the classics.

Castlevania : Symphony of the Night.

Came out 2d at a time when 3d was the rage. Still was the best game out for PSX in any genre besides RPG. Engrossing story with good continuity between games (and i believe there 16 of em), combined with the best 'feeling' gameplay make this game a classic in my book. Any game designer should be able to appreciate the immense amount of artwork that went into making that game so immersive. as well as a great soundtrack. Top quality, but those were sony's best years...

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Original post by Oluseyi Not a single sports game on anyone's list. Interesting. I don't have a list. I don't care what you have or haven't played; I care a whole lot more what questions you're asking, who you're talking to and what you're trying to do. In fact, I fear that some of this may be harmful because of the calcification that occurs from repeated exposure - overexposure? - to a similar design. For instance, there are dozens of number-crunching, stat-based "RPGs" on various lists, which increases the likelihood that you (the reader of these lists and player of these games) will create yet another number-crunching, stat-based RPG. *yawn* There's a much bigger audience out there that clearly hasn't been captivated by any of the games you've mentioned. Why? What do they want? How can we deliver it? Can we deliver it? Those are the questions I would like to see asked, rather than serving the same answers up again and again.

I would have to disagree somewhat on this. I would care what you have or haven't played. Though questions you're asking & who you're talking to is important, exposure to the media that you're working in is at least equally important. If you wanted to be a writer you would want your readers to get the most out of your work. You do that by learning to write well. You learn to write well by examining the works of other authors. Especially the ones held in high regard.

ummm....no one likes Total Annihilation and everyone likes Starcraft? Pfft... I like both of 'em.

I also liked SMRPG.

And does no one like the Baulder Gate series? I enjoyed those more then Bethseda's games.

And I aint gonna list sports games because I dont enjoy most of the sports in real life so why would I in the game?

Finally, Smash Bros. 2. What's so innovative? Zelda, a female character, isn't gimped or sexed out. Same obviously for Samus. Woah...

Yeah, there was sarcasm there.

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Original post by logain ummm....no one likes Total Annihilation and everyone likes Starcraft? Pfft... I like both of 'em. And does no one like the Baulder Gate series? I enjoyed those more then Bethseda's games.

I havn't played Total Annihilation, so I can't really make any judgement on it, although I've heard a lot of good things about it, so it's probably something I'll try to pick up a copy of sometime. Any particular features you'd recommend I look out for?

I listed the BG series.

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Original post by Oluseyi Not a single sports game on anyone's list. Interesting.

I don't really like the whole concept of sports games personally - these are things you can attempt in real life - sure, you might not be as good as you could be in a game, but you'll get real benefits in fitness in addition to the fun of playing.

That being said, I'm sure there's some excellent sports games out there, with some very interesting features.

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Original post by Oluseyi *snip* There's a much bigger audience out there that clearly hasn't been captivated by any of the games you've mentioned. Why? What do they want? How can we deliver it? Can we deliver it?

Some excellent points there. Some excellent designs could probably be created by starting with absolutely no reference point, finding a single idea, and expanding from there into something with workable gameplay, without trying to fit it into a genre or category, or comparing it to existing games. On the other hand, this could equally as easily produce some very bad games.


Also, an addition to my list:
Pente: A two player boardgame (apparently it can be played with additional players, but I havn't tried this, and aren't sure if there are additional rules). Players take turns placing tokens on the board. Victory conditions are either being the first to get 5 tokens placed in an unbroken straight line (running in any direction including diagonals), or capturing 5 pairs of the other players tokens. Tokens can be captured by placing a token on each side of a pair of the other players tokens, as illustrated here (player one takes a pair of player two's pieces in each diagram):

* = p1 token, @ = p2 token, - = empty space--*--           -----           ---*-            --@--           -----           --@----@--           *@@*-           -@-----*--           -----           *----

Although the rules are very simple, the game is quite challenging, and can require quite a bit of thought, particularly if both players are of roughly equal skill.

I find it quite interesting that there are several games here that I really think have serious design flaws (Baldur's Gate, FF7, Tekken 3, Daggerfall). There's something to be learned from most games, even if it's just how not to do something.

I agree with StarCraft, and also Zelda 3 (A link to the past). Both are some of my favourite games out there! Quake 3 is also pretty good. It's a good IGame

Jedi Knight. I saw it the other day at target, bundled with the expansion, for $10. It was perhaps the best star wars game ever - until KOTOR.

My 10 cents (1 cent per game) in no order. There are a million other great games which other people have mentioned but these are ones that stand out in my mind as very unique games.

1) Super Mario 3
2) Super Metroid
3) Beatmania IIDX series (Japanese music game)
4) Zelda 3
5) Metal Gear
6) Myth II (IMHO the best Bungie game ever, yes better than Halo)
7) Halo
8) Half-Life 2 (the first one as well they go hand and hand)
9) Final Fantasy 7 (great system)
10) Pac-Man (much love for the yellow pill popper)

and shameless plug for
11) In The Groove