(hold me back people...)

Why the f**k does everyone argue semantics all the
f**king time !?!

Stop being narrow minded! You can''t just stuff games into
stereotypical genres any more, because they are too complex!!

And the genre is just a label anyway!!! It''s a security blanket
that small-brained fools cling to in an effort to feel superior!
(ooh, i''m special - I''m making a FPS, so what, I''m doing an
RPG)

The point you need to see is that it is a *GAME*

if people want to call something "thingamabob", then let them
call it a thingamabob. No one''s stopping you from calling it
a "whatsit", a "gizmo", or whatever.


AARGH!!!

From now on, if anyone asks me what I''m making, I''m just going
to say "A Game". Leave all the point pushing and semantic games
to the self-righteous wankers.


(guess who had a bad day at work...)

SpazBoy_the_Mitey, hell yeah! My thoughts exactly


"All you touch and all you see is all your life will ever be --Pink Floyd
Need help? Well, go FAQ yourself.

quote: Original post by SpazBoy_the_Mitey

From now on, if anyone asks me what I''m making, I''m just going
to say "A Game". Leave all the point pushing and semantic games
to the self-righteous wankers.

Uhh.. hehehe.. what kinda game?

i would call it action-adventure with some rpg-elements.
the way it mixes different styles makes it one of my all-time favorite games.
zelda64 even becomes a fps when you shoot with your sling.

I think that''s (one of) the points that Spaz and Galaxy are making. You can''t stuff anything into Genres really because nothing is a pure-blood RPG or a pure-blood FPS. (Almost) every game has a combination of other Genres. IMHO, however, I think calling a game a (insert genre) describes what genre it is most of. For example, DOOM is a FPS, even though it has minor puzzle elements, it is mostly a FPS. Zelda, IMHO is mostly a puzzle game, but it has RPG elements. Ogre Battle is about a 50/50 RPG/RTS. Heck, Mario 64 is mainly a platform type game, but it is also has puzzle elements.

My point is that no game is just a RPG, or a FPS or a XYZ. However, I also don''t think that the 3 letter words should just be dumped. Human''s love to catorgorize. It makes their lives easier and faster in some cases. Think about it, if you liked sports, and you went to Shareware.com, wouldn''t you like to go to a Sports section, instead of weeding though 5,000,000 other non-sports type games? Personally, I can see the uses for 3 letter names, but if you hate them, don''t use them.

BTW, the marketers for Zelda probably thought they would get a wider audience for their game if they used the term, RPG, instead of Puzzle Game.

-Blackstream

quote: Original post by lakibuk

i would call it action-adventure with some rpg-elements.
the way it mixes different styles makes it one of my all-time favorite games.
zelda64 even becomes a fps when you shoot with your sling.

Well, mine would be an exploration game, with predefined branching story, actions with consequences and a bit of characterisation thrown into the fray... Oh and I am forgetting a bit of controvercy in the making .

Naz - I am with you

SpazBoy_the_Mitey - I was too tired last night to say it... I am glad you did.. I think all mine would have been is "Genre''s are evil. Never class anything into a Genre. Technically any game *could* be considered an RPG!" or along those lines

-Chris Bennett of Dwarfsoft - Site:"The Philosophers' Stone of Programming Alchemy" - IOL
The future of RPGs - Thanks to all the goblins over in our little Game Design Corner niche
          

quote:
Original post by blackstream

My point is that no game is just a RPG, or a FPS or a XYZ. However, I also don''t think that the 3 letter words should just be dumped.

I *would* agree with you on this point, but only if eveyone else
could agree how those 3 letter genres are defined. You get into
worlds of trouble when you call anything different (dare I say
innovative?) an RPG. This thread is a prime example.

So perhaps, instead of using jargonistic lingo that obfuscates
the author''s intent, we should just speak in plain, descriptive
terms.

The phrase "This game is" should be demolished with extreme
predjudice. As soon as you say that a game "is" something, you
influence other peoples'' perception of what the game *actually*
is. Instead, it should be said what a game "has".

For instance:

Zela is a game,
that is set in a 3d fanatsy world,
with the camera follwing the hero around.

In Zelda you kill monsters, & solve puzzles using a variety
of weapons & skills which you acquire along the way.


Conclusion - yes, it is helpful and instinctive to categorize
games, but the terms and our understanding of them differ. So
either people will be more flexible in their use of these terms
(btw: ape, I never classified Final Fantasy games as RPG), or
perhaps we need to describe content more clearly. By the look
of things, no one is EVER going to do either of these, and
we are doomed to spend eternity locked in big massive arguments
about what game is what.



------------------------
Hmmm, my flu medication is nullifying all the caffeine in my
system. Soon I''ll have to sleep like normal people.

"I think SpazBoy likes the sound of his own keyboard just a
little too much for his own good" -- SpazBoy

I am anonymous that alone will eat up all your mind
i don''t remember many pc-games that could be at least compared in a few ways to rpgs.
Role Playing Game means that you are playing the role of a character not that you guide a character somewhere and attributes change or something it means you are the characterwith his attributes you develop them and you help a charcter developing its attributes
and neither FF nor Zelda is an rpg perhaps CD H&S A game(Chracter development Hack & Slash Action Game)
CDH&SA Games
I don''t want to say these games are bad or anything but if you are using terms like RPG you should see that it means Role Playing Game

Naz & Dwarfsoft-

I had to laugh when I saw this thread. No offense, but this is why your crusade to abolish genres in favor of more descriptive terms will fail. As soon as you say you have a game w/ "exploration, some characterization, and actions w. consequences," and another game comes out w. the same sort of thing- WAM-POW, you have the "exploration/characterization/consequential action" genre, soon to be shortened to "ex-char-consequential", to "ECC" games. LOL!

OTH, I know your real intent is to develop a more useful way of talking about games, mainly for developers' sake. In that light, have you read Gamasutra's Formal Abstract Design Tools thread? This guy (and the associated forum) has done alot of hard thought in this direction. The article's worth a read.

If you see the Buddha on the road, Kill Him. -apocryphal

Edited by - Anonymous Poster. on November 5, 2000 1:14:16 PM

Enough of the "game genres arn''t definitive" crap already... Genres have never been all powerful defineing tools...they are just lose associations comprised from simular common features found in comparable products...they don''t have sharp edge borders...and never have

To that end I think Zelda is an RPG...sure, it doesn''t seem to "perfectly" fit the genre as would a more definitve RPG like Ultima, nor does it have a strong emphesis on story as Final Fantasy does...All it meens is that RPGs is a major "umbrella" genre, much like "Action Movies" or "Rap Music"...within each of those genres there can be a huge amount of diversity, and many genre members can "cross over" into other genres...

After all, how would you classify the film "The Matrix"?

Action, Comedy, Sci-fi, Horror, or Drama?

Hard core Action movie fans could argue that it doesn''t fit because of the sci-fi elements...

Hard core Sci-fi fans could argue that huge emphesis on action would eliminate it from thier chosen genre...

Does this meen we need to make a new genre for this film to fit into?...HELL NO!...It just meens that the hard core genre fan is to "close" to the genre...they just need to step back, get out more often, be more accepting, open minded...then they may finaly understand that genres don''t only contain a narrow check-list of features to compare against [thinking like that is what limits creativity]...