I have a question that connects some of the recent RPG discussions in this group and game reviews and previews I''ve been reading of late. For some time I''ve been noticing how FPS and RTS games have been announcing more and more RPG-like features. I was just reading about the promotion system in Red Alert 2, for example, where units that survive battle get to level up and become stronger. Do you think the push to add RPG elements is a trend, or is it an advance (like fog of war or unit queues in an RTS, or the mouselook in a FPS)? I personally think that it is a trend, and that games are having trouble distinguishing themselves on the basis of gameplay alone so they''re pulling from other genres. I think as games include more RPG elements, and are eventually unable to distinguish themselves, they''ll switch to something else (maybe more indirect combat methods) or borrow from another genre. -------------------- Just waiting for the mothership...

Perhaps, it''s not so much to distinguish themselves, but they see it as a way to make the characters deeper? If that''s the case then it''s probably an advancement because I like the idea of deeper characterization.


"All you touch and all you see is all your life will ever be --Pink Floyd
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Well, although I like to see smart ''NPCs'' or bots in games, it makes me wonder where all the effort is going in RPG''s... They seem to be headed for FPS or RTS... I think that THEY need to go into deeper characterisation before anyone else.

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Tiberia???? You and Naz must be playing Red Alert 2!!!

Dwarf I agree. An interview with the designers of Ultima 9 awhile back before it was released said that they couldn''t do a party because the game had 3D graphics, and that pathfinding was too hard. Yet Unreal Tournament pulled it off, and those bots have more smarts in combat than any NPC I''ve ever seen!

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Just waiting for the mothership...

hehe...I just put Tiberia there to annoy pouya

I didn''t notice dwarfsoft''s too til just now *LoL*


"All you touch and all you see is all your life will ever be --Pink Floyd
Need help? Well, go FAQ yourself.

experience for units is an a useful option in RTSs. It is an advance for some games but it isn''t the kind of thing every RTS should have, so it isn''t on the level of fog of war. The reasoning behind it isn''t to add depth (though they might say that as a gimmick) but to encourage a playstyle where people don''t just send units off to die while cranking out more at home. If units level a more cautious and precise style focusing on smaller armies is favored. That is the hope anyway. I don''t know of any good game that has used this. Well myth has it in single player but it doesn''t improve the game. Strifeshadow and Warcraft III are trying it, so we''ll get a chance to see how it works out.

Well, I don''t know if I''d call it a trend, since its been around for quite awhile. I''d really rather not try to dredge up a list titles, but if you''d like them, I''m sure I could do a few searches and/or remember them. River City Ransom, Ogre Battle, and a few Final Fight arcade clones had RPG-like features. I''m sure there are dozens more.

Also, I wouldn''t call it an advancement like fog-of-war or unit queues, but not because its not "on a level" w/ these features. Things like unit-advancement are not appropritate for every RTS/FPS game. It might have killed Quake. On the other hand, I can''t think of an FPS that would have suffered from the mouse-look feature. The same goes unit queues. Although it doesn''t fundamentally change the game, (actually, because it doesn''t change the game) it is a useful feature that enhances the playability of any RTS.

So- its not a trend, as it has been around as long as processors have been advanced enough to handle something more than Space Invaders, and it is unlikely to go away anytime soon. And it is not an advancement, because it is not appropriate for every game, and as Anon has noted, it fundamentally changes the gameplay, something your other examples of advancements do not.

If you see the Buddha on the road, Kill Him. -apocryphal