[smile] What is this all about? What makes hardcore gamers hate people sims so much? Is it because of their mass popularity, or is it because of the subject matter?

I assume you're talking about game like 'The Sims'? If so, my basic problem with them is that I wouldn't want to spend days and days getting my sim a great job, keeping them happy, feeding them, washing them, et cetera - If I wanted all these things for someone (which I do in myself) then I'd so it in real life.

Games are, to me, a way of separating reality from fiction - that's why I like going on FPS killing sprees, or loading into a spaceship and blasting the crap out of alien scum, or running a huge galactic empire or fighting a war... or... I can't do any of these things in my real life (or if I could, I'd be in jail) - if I spent the time and effort I'd put into the Sims on my real life, there's a good chance I'd be able to live that life - so why not put all that energy into reality and live my own dream?

That probably made no sense.

Edit: I'm not a hardcore gamer; I'd say I was a 'casual, wage slave gamer' - I don't have the time to fully immerse myself into a game these days - which is probably another reason I don't play reality sims... They're not made for picking up and playing for 20 minutes here and there.

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Original post by Wavinator [smile] What is this all about? What makes hardcore gamers hate people sims so much? Is it because of their mass popularity, or is it because of the subject matter?

I, like evolutional, am not a hardcore gamer either. I understand and agree with what he's saying for the most part. I personally think the reason that hardcore gamers hate people sims so much is that they fail to do what their purpose is. I'm talking about freedom of choice. Most games like the Sims are so called 'life simulators' - but they do a horrible job at simulating life. This was obviously apparent when Maxis finally came out with 'Hot Date' and also the 'Vacation'. I mean I can play Grand Theft Auto 3 or Hitman 3 and just tear the world up! [smile]. However, this is not possible in these games - and for good reasons as well.

The life-sims are meant to be a source of entertainment such as all video games are. However, if something is a 'simulator' and it fails to fully simulate something, people just go insane. The one point that I would have a different view on is the whole spending the time to make a character, make them happy, etc.. Humans by nature are an 'engineering' type of race. We are always building and creating things, trying to get them bigger and better all the time. Not only that, we take pride in our achivements. I think that people, for the most part, enjoy being able to start from scratch in a game and build up their imginary electronic life.

Think about how much time people spend playing MMORPGS building up their character, buying them the best items, showing them off for the world to fear. In life sims, its more of a sense of personal achievement. Its like yes, I started from nothing and now my sim is a multi-millionaire. This ties in with I'd say mid-90's. Remember virtual pets? All the kids wanted them so they had their little pet to take care of. That proved to be quite a fad for a while.

Now the last thing I would have to say is that simply said - electronics are better. You can go into a game and play however you want, and there will be no real life consequences (You know what I mean). You can always just hit reset, or laod a saved game and try again. This is what is alluring for video gamers. It's a way to escape the real world. Now this concept is not anything new. People have been doing the same thing before computer games were made - through reading. However, you can visualize a lot more in a game than you can a book. This ties in with life-sims because people can basically write their own book - take things how they want them. Harccore gamers don't want to write a book. They want to be faced with hordes of salvage monsters they have to mow down with their chaingun or sneak through the lines w/ cunning steath. Life-Sims provide no viable challenge to them.

I bet evolutional has made more sense than I have [lol]. Just some thoughts though.

- Drew

I suppose it just depends on the persons fantasies. If they want to kill people in their fantasies (not that they are sadistic or anything), they might like a FPS. But some people like The Sims and such because it is a mirror of reality in a controlled enviroment where they can do things they can not in real life.

In the sims you can seduce the maid, become filthy rich, and all sorts of stuff that alot of people just can't do. FPS and Sims are based on the same idea, just different approaches.

As for why someone would passionatly hate something like that, probably for the xtreme opinion which to seems to be pretty cool. "I am one rad dude and all those lame sim games can kiss my behind"

Many hardcore gamers are highly competitive and/or want challenging games. The Sims does not really lend itself terribly well to competitive gameplay, and is seen more as a 'toy' than a challenging game.

On the other hand, one thing that often puts off 'casual' players from more 'hardcore' games is the difficulty and competitive nature of them. Many of these players don't want to have their arse kicked by 12 year old kids online, or by a dumb computer AI on 'easy', and nor do they want to put in eight hours a day of practice in order that they can win more often - they just want to muck around and have fun in virtual worlds, and for this sort of thing, games like The Sims deliver exactly what they want.

Games like GTA manage to do a pretty good job of appealing to both groups, in my opinion. Many of the missions are tricky enough to keep the hardcore gamers interested, and there's always the challenge of getting the game 100% complete. Casual gamers on the other hand, can happily forget about the missions and just muck around, racing cars, causing mayhem and generally having fun, with no real worry about 'losing'.

That's my take on it, anyway.

That's rather how I see it, too. The Sims is a toy (and a shamelessly-whored mass-market money machine too), not really a game.

Isn't it a little bit like how as boys we hated playing with dolls but loved playing with GI Joes or Transformers, or any of the other action figure toys with plenty of accessories (as long as they were guns, swords, or some other mutilating device)

I agree the Sims wasn't that entertaining to me. But neither are FPS where all you do is click your mouse button spin around, click click click...

The beautiful thing about games is that there is really something for everyone out there. Play/make the games you like, and don't worry about the other stuff.

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Original post by Potsticker Isn't it a little bit like how as boys we hated playing with dolls but loved playing with GI Joes or Transformers, or any of the other action figure toys with plenty of accessories (as long as they were guns, swords, or some other mutilating device) I agree the Sims wasn't that entertaining to me. But neither are FPS where all you do is click your mouse button spin around, click click click... The beautiful thing about games is that there is really something for everyone out there. Play/make the games you like, and don't worry about the other stuff.

If you think all you do in a FPS is "click your mouse button spin around," you are gravely mistaken.

I think you guys should define "Hardcore gamer" in more specific terms. Cause it sounds to me that you are saying gamers who like FPS/Action genre hate Sims. Well, obviously, people who like chocolate sorbet might not like strawberry one. Sims is but definition is a simulation: a puzzle, where you have to "solve" the problem of how the System works. That IS the game. That's why it is in its own genre.

I personally liked Sims in the beginning. But it failed for me in delivering the ultimate goal. As soon as you build an efficient rout inside a house to balance out "needs" timers - and beef up you Sim's skills - there is no more challenge any more. No goal. IN strategy games at list all you micromanagement serves the ultimate goal: to conquer the land, win a techno race. The ultimate reward is what makes repetitious management tasks worthwhile.

Another reason I think is the gender of the players. I’m not trying to force a cliché: girls play dolls, guys play guns. And I hate to sound too generic and shallow, but women prefer the social aspect, and reactionary sides of Sims NPCs. Guys prefer to have a plan, a route to follow, a scheme. And most of the replies here, I presume, are from guys. It would be interesting to see what ladies can say on the subject.

I don't mind The Sim's, really. But i find the whole experience to be utterly and completely pointless. Sure my sim is a billionare, i have an extensive family tree, but all he does is sleep, eat, work and pray that he doesn't collapse from exhaustion at night, every night.

It seems like the perfect simulator for todays industrial family, and frankly, it completely depresses the crap out of me after awhile. After i'm done playing i'll go and get a snack, talk with some friends, work abit, and then it starts to dawn on me that i'm doing everything my sim was. Now since i feel the Sims is totally pointless (since you can anticipate the future of its life fairly easily with the goals they have in mind) then it really starts to get to me.

Its usually just the sims in particular, maybe because its a life simulator of people. I don't usually feel the same way about other simulators. Who knows..