Just a question... excuse my ignorence... but what is a 4x game? I have never heard of that genre. Sounds interesting though.

Thanks,

SilverKnight

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Original post by Telastyn Complexity describes the number of rules in the game. Depth describes the number of meaningful choices in the game. Realism describes how close those rules come to the real life situation described by the game.

That's a great breakdown. I've mushed all these together by looking at things at a very high level of abstraction and counting factors. But this is very helpful.

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In go, there are only a few rules. A rule to describe how to start, a rule describing victory conditions, a rule to describe capture conditions, and a rule of Ko. Go has great depth, because the meaningful choices presented to players change as the game's state changes [based on previous choices]. The rules [complexities] remain constant.

Right. But I keep wondering if you could make Go a 4x game (it's an interesting side exercise, if nothing else-- and if not, why not?)

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Certainly 4x games require quite a bit of realism, as they generally try to represent real life well.

But why? What does this realism do? Doesn't this aid with suspension of disbelief, or some notion of making it feel like the game has gravity or significance? If I conquer the world with floating happy faces, it's just not the same than if I push tanks (even Grav tanks [wink]) into a beseiged city. The realism sets up and satisfies an expectation. (We're probably not arguing that as much as arguing how much, as in the case of Go).

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Unfortunately, many real life rules do not provide a meaninful choice to people/players. It just burdens them with complexity with no benefit.

Agreed. Sometimes, though, such choices are exist ONLY to satisfy the need for "gravity" or significance. How much significance you have is a matter of taste, which leads to complaints about a game being too realistic or too superfluous.

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Take Civ3 for example. The resource model there isn't realistic. One deposit won't satisfy the entire world. The concept though of "tile x must connect by road to resource y" isn't exactly foreign to people. It's just used in real life differently than in the game. In that way the game adds complexity [and meaningful choice] without realism.

This is a good example. I notice that people seem to demand the most semblance of reality where it directly impacts their areas of experience and knowledge. I think it's safe to say that most gamers are familiar with combat. Because of this you get Civ3 offering complexity in things like artillery bombardment and artillery duels or blockading ports, but dispensing with weather-- you get no real details, for example, in improving infrastructure with canals and bridges, for example because most people have less knowledge and interest in those things.

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Original post by Raja-SilverKnight Just a question... excuse my ignorence... but what is a 4x game? I have never heard of that genre. Sounds interesting though.

A game where you manage a nation or empire, often with the focus of fighting or competing with other nations / empires. The 4x stands for what you typically do: eXplore the map, eXpand your nation / empire, eXploit the resources you find, and eXterminate the opposition.

Personally, I've always viewed realism in 4x games similarly to "plot" in most other games [RTS/FPS]. A good plot entertains the player, but exists indepentantly of the rules of the game. <br><br>I doubt Go could be a 4x game somehow. There's no real exploration, and I cannot imagine any way to convert the game to allow for it without breaking something else horrendeously.<br><br>That said, it was designed as a wargame, and might make for a good combat system in a larger 4x game.<br>