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Original post by Peter Szabo Gabor I was struggling in Lightwave, it was quite a torment.

stop using Lightwave. Its sort of like Linux. Its more powerfull, but takes alot longer to learn.

Go obtain a copy of 3D Studio Max 6. Its alot more intuitive, and is alot easier to learn on your own than Lightwave. Once you get the art of modeling down, then move on to lightwave and fight with the program. Use Max to learn, especially since you're learning on your own.

Well I have tryed using many programs in my attempt at 3d modeling and have fail each and every time! I have given up completely on it. I am just going to stick to 2d from now on. I hate the fact that nowadays your almost required to be skilled in multiple areas in order to get a job, but I will not follow this guideline! I am a 2d artist and thats that. I also tryed dabling in writing and was met with the same things telling me that I should write and do something else as well. Rubish. This is like telling a novelist to also learn how to draw. I find this is the main thing plagueing people who wish to join the game design industry. I just want to do what I'm good at doing, not learning a new trade to be allowed to do the one I already know. So in closing, The answer to my question is-- No, not without being skilled enough to be able to do something else. This makes me so sad.

Gotcha. Remember kids: If you fail, give up and complain about being a failure.

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This is like telling a novelist to also learn how to draw.

That's very different, writing skills have nothing to do with drawing skills, unlike modeling, or anything art related you do as an artist in the games industry.

The industry doesn't need Photoshop users, it needs artists.
An artist should above all other things, know how to draw, being able to do it in PS or translate it into 3D should be just a matter of learning the tools.
I'd also think that any artist should get a kick out of the possibility to give their creations a third dimention, it's just going a step further. Most of the people i know that learned 3D love it more than 2D now and can't imagine going back to working mainly in 2D anymore.

It doesn't really matter if you use PS, Painter or PSP really, the software isn't important at all as long as it delivers the desired file format. Same with the 3D app, we got Lightwave licenses, XSI, ZBrush, some work with modo now... it doesn't matter, it's the artistical skills that count since rough art skill translates fine to any media, 2D or 3D. Usually, you'll just have to pay for the software yourself, if it's not the one suggested by the company.

There are 2D only jobs in the industry, for how long still i don't know, few years for sure. It's mainly large studios that will split the categories, throwing a bunch of texturers in cubicles and having them doing misc nameless stuff.

Garmicheal... Keep your comments to yourself. I never complained about anything. I said I tryed it, couldn't get the hang of it, and decided to move on. Don't jump to conclusions.

To everyone else... I have tryed 5 or 6 3d programs with very little success. I just can't understand the programs. Even the tutorials found throughout the net are very difficult for a novice to understand. I am actually quite sure that if I run through a tutorial that I can understand, then I would jump right into the 3d world. The problem is finding one thats well written, and easy to understand.

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Original post by Peter Szabo Gabor Should we really have to learn modelling?

You dont have to, but your chances of getting a job will become very small. There are alot of graphic artists and modelers out there that know both, and are good at both. And needless to say, they will get hired more often than artists/modelers that only know one them.

So if you are serious about getting employed in the game industry, i seriously sugest you learn both.

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Original post by JimBean69 Garmicheal... Keep your comments to yourself. I never complained about anything. I said I tryed it, couldn't get the hang of it, and decided to move on. Don't jump to conclusions. To everyone else... I have tryed 5 or 6 3d programs with very little success. I just can't understand the programs. Even the tutorials found throughout the net are very difficult for a novice to understand. I am actually quite sure that if I run through a tutorial that I can understand, then I would jump right into the 3d world. The problem is finding one thats well written, and easy to understand.

you ARE complaining about how bad you are at 3D, despite how hard you try.

One problem you're having is that you're using FIVE OR SIX programs. Get one, and learn it. Seriously. stop going on about how you cant figure it out. its not that hard once you get the basic concept. Also, dont try and go head on and make lara croft or some three headed monster.

If i were you, do this:
1. Get 3D Studio Max.
2. try to use the primitives (Boxes, spheres, tubes, etc) and make something out of them. Sort of like when you were a kid and made stuff out of legos and crap.
3. once you get the hang of thinking in 3d, try to edit a box by converting it to an editable mesh. Then, you can click a button to grab Vertices (single: Vertex). Theres also button to choose edges, faces, and polygons. Go to the vertex level, and gragb them and start tweaking them out to make different basic shapes.
4. Once you get the hang of editing boxes, start playing with Modifiers. Play with Twist, bend, and lattice. Also, play with random ones.

Now, you should be pretty used to the very very basics of modeling. To get here, its seriously just a matter of practicing and playing around with different things. you cant ruin the program, so if youre not sure what something does, play with it and test it.

5. Go find a tutorial on how to model with spline editing. My first spline model was a shark.
6. After youre done with that tutorial, continue to play with spline editing. pick random things out of your room and try to model them. Basic things.
7. Now, learn about Lathe, extrude, and bevel. Basically, you make a shape out of splines, and use that 2-d shape and extrude it. That will create a 3d shape giving it a height you want. Lathe will take a shope, and create a 3d shape by spinning the sides of your shape around an axis. Bevel is like Extrude, but gives you 3 levels of extrusion (for different size on each level).
8. Afte you learned about it, use splines to make an outline of your name. Extrude it first, and itll make a 3d model of your name. Once you get that down, try beveling the shape of your name.
9. To practice Lathing, try o make cylander shaped objects: Cups, Vases, Lamps, etc.
10. Once you got the hand of spline modeling, find a tutorial on Mesh Editing. Learn about Extruding and beveling faces, etc.
11. Then, using Extrude Polygon, make a Q-Bert level our of one box.
12. Read more tutorials on Mesh Editing, and then try to make some basic things. Chairs, Speakers, your monitor, a computer case, a clock, etc.

Dont worry about textures yet. Once you can do these 12 steps, youll be ready for textures.
I noticed alot of my problem learning 3D was that i was trying to go too fast. I jumped in head on and tried to make super elaborate scenes and effects. No good.

I would reccomend playing with textures (or Materials) as a side thing. just screwing around with them. A hint: Go to MAPS in the roll out menu of a Material, and click the box next to "Diffuse". Choose Bitmap, and then scour your hard drive for a picture. then, click and hold on the sphere showing your material, and drag it on top of your model. Render it, and youll see that bitmap stretched over it.
If you want to play with this, I reccomend making spheres, and using textures of planets and make a model of a solar system. You can find textures for Earth, Mars, the Moon and stuff on the internet (or Google Image search).

try not to say "Fuck it, i suck, so i give up", cuz it took me a while to type this out.

I been playing with Max for about 7 weeks now, and I've got some basic stuff figured out. Here's a scene im currently working on:

I took out the lighting while modeling so it would render faster, so imagine cool shadows and better smoothing all around. Lighting really makes stuff look realistic.
Its a model of an Final Fantasy style Airship (Still needs propellers) at dock at a floating island.

"So if you are serious about getting employed in the game industry, i seriously sugest you learn both."

Hey, I DO work in the industry. :-)
There are lots of areas where you don't need 3D (yet) and I
hope there always be. (cellphones, puzzles, card games and so).

On the other side, I do not share Jim's opinion and regardless how painful it is, I WILL learn 3D. Hmmm....
Seemingly I've chosen the wrong tool at first. When you want to learn the bike you will choose one with 3 wheels not one with a single wheel. :-)

I'll got a copy of a trial or something (is there trial of 3DS Max), and I bet the trial would be just enough. I think it costs a lot to buy it.

Dots, no dots? In lightwave I had to put somekind of dots (maybe not this is the name, it was a year ago) and these dots was connected to each other with lines. Then when I had a 2D implementation of a bowl's segment then I could rotate it to become 3D. It took a half an hour (sometimes Lightwave crashed, maybe my system was too low-performance one), while I could
draw that damn bowl in 10 minutes in photoshop. :-) (and that would look a way better then this one) On the other hand this
bowl then could be used and animated easily, while my photoshop 2D was static. So I am not against 3D, I just find it to require other skills besides artistic ones.

If I look at it personally, I still find that 3D games look worse (but evolving) than 2D ones, they look a bit artificial, and I could be really angry when 3D occupies every area of gaming (even where 2D is just nicer).

But I agree with all of you, that 3D has to be known.

Thx.

Isn't there any opensource thing to go with? I just ask, some of us might possibly stumbled upon one that is useful.

Thx.

Isn't there any opensource thing to go with? I just ask, some of us might possibly stumbled upon one that is useful.