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Skill based vs. Level based systems.

Started by November 01, 2004 07:15 PM
31 comments, last by solinear 20 years, 2 months ago
Quote:

Instead, why don't we make games more interactive? More involved than just killing rats and fetching and delivering items. How about solving murders? Tracking down thieves?


Well said. In theory, if the environment is engrossing enough you may not even *need* a level treadmill at all.

In an MMO (or at least, in one I'd like to play) there would be a in-depth social system, and even a "science" system that could allow the player to actually do things his/herself using the game's UI. Beyond physical stats, no skill/level system would be necessary.

Want to own a tavern? Build it, script some hired NPCs and do it yourself, there isn't some set "entrepreneural" skill. (Second Life is just about the only game I know of that even approaches this level of immersion).

Need more strength? Develop/buy a bionic replacement or something. Build a spaceship, chart the universe and be a great explorer who auctions off planets to interested buyers. Is that a skill? no. Wanna be evil? Build a death-battle-star-moon-base thingy and go take potshots at planets! It's your "life", do what you want. When you get sick of it, move on!

If the game allows the players to really give to the game, most won't notice the missing level system. Casual players can still enjoy it, and the ubers can (peacefully) be just that.

I will stand back to note this is every bit as hard to implement as it sounds. A failed MMO I tried aspired to exist in an infinite universe with full planets and everything. Player contributed stuff would be parsed and reviewed and allowed in-game. (scripts for items would be evaluated by an online compiler that created a "blueprint" that outlined what kinds/amount of resources would be necessary to build something in-game. Your character could design a deathstar if you wanted, it doesn't mean you can afford one.

Why place limits on the players? (of course, scaling NPCs for cmobat would be an issue, and so would economy, but "our" game was gonna have a vast NPC population abound to thin the player density. (I'm talking thousands upon thousands of GTA/sims-like NPCs) You can then hire NPCs to do whatever, (we even discussed hot-topics like enslaving people or being an evil overlord.)

The interesting part was supposed to be the magic system (hardly even on paper). Things like that was the only player progression in the game (available mana), but exp wasn't it. Instead, you could "expand" your mind - by constantly trying to use spells that were a bit 'too much', you could master them. Mastering bigger/bigger spells (slowly) expanded your mana reserves. You can't really "grind" at it, since it's restricted by time and what spells you have been exposed too or taught - (magic is a punishable offense in the game's story too)

It was PvP based - so things like investigators/bounty hunters are probably everywhere. But for smaller games, this is shooting for alot. building a science/physics system that accounts for radio communication, lightspeed travel, FTL travel, and processing/mining rare raw materials from unique asteroids/planets is quite a design task. (we managed to do alot with just unique ids and psuedorandom number generators.)

But I think Heaven's point is well worth (seriously) considering if you're looking to make a splash.
"This I Command" - Serpentor, Ruler of C.O.B.R.A
If you've ever played Shadowrun then that is pretty much the system for you....(though you would definately have to tweak the system) One way to fix the overpowering "tank mage" type characters is to put in opposing skills...purchases in one limits purchases and/or effectiveness of the others.
Ideas presented here are free. They are presented for the community to use how they see fit. All I ask is just a thanks if they should be used.
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Quote:
Original post by Heaven
Sounds almost like someone wants a communistic type environment, where everyone is equal. No?

Then why CAN'T there be "ubers" and "non-ubers"? It's a fact of life that, if person A spends 10x the amount of time doing something than person B, he's going to be much better at it than person B. Oh, well, person B can't help that he doesn't have 10x as much free time as person A, so let's penalize person A. Or give bonuses to person B?

Blah. The Socialization of the MMORPG. Heh.


LOL...

OK, let's look at this from another direction. How many people understood probabilities and statistics 200 years ago? 100? 50? 25? Today?

Diversification and diffusion of information makes gaining ability within a field easier. Calculus was the exclusive field of engineers and theoretical mathematicians a few hundred years go. Today, 1 in 10 high school students take it. 1 in 5 end up taking some form in college. Is calculus any easier today than 300 years ago? Nope. We just understand it better and are better at teaching it. Computers? Same thing.

So why should it be any different in an MMO setting?

Yes, that's not my primary reason for doing it. However, it is a valid (and realistic) reason for allowing quicker ability gains at the lower end and slower at the 'bleeding edge' of technology (or magic/whatever).

Quote:
Original post by Heaven
Instead, why don't we make games more interactive? More involved than just killing rats and fetching and delivering items. How about solving murders? Tracking down thieves?

Make it fun for the guy who only has a few hours to play every other day. And leave the ubers to their rats and bunnies. It's all about fun, and maximizing gameplay options, not minimizing or reducing them, increases the opportunity for fun.


Yep, I completely agree. You aren't looking at my entire game here though. I have no plans on limiting players to be adventurers or adventurers. Merchants, tradeskillers, diplomats, socialites... these are all the gaming paths that I plan on allowing and supporting.

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