Quote:

Original post by Dr Mean This is my impression of the people at this forum. Instead of trying to help people, you try to explain to them how you're not going to help them, or tell them they're wrong and shouldn't need, or be asking for help. I don't understand. It doesn't help by being condescending like that either.

Dr Mean, to be fair, you've come into this thread with a bit of an attitude, saying 'FL Studio IS slow' and 'all these programs are very flawed'. You have to expect slightly indignant responses with that sort of tone.

Quote:

Maybe it would better if you suggest a program, instead of telling me why I shouldn't want notation.

There's the attitude again - not once did I tell you that you shouldn't want notation, but I was making the point that alternatives to notation have many benefits, especially in non traditional music, and that is why notation is not a priority in sequencers like Fruity Loops. I did once make the personal opinion that I prefer the piano roll, and backed it up with a little theory, but that's not the same as trying to tell you what to do.

Quote:

I don't know. Apparently no one has ever tried NWC here. Seriously try it. You can write so fast in it... I could write a 16th note bass drum run in 1 second. It would take me over a minute with a sequencer (keep in mind that I'm kinda slow =/)

What do you mean by 16th note bass drum run? If you just mean 16 notes in one bar, then that's a case of left-clicking and dragging across the 16 entries on the bass drum channel, which will take between 5 and 25 milliseconds depending on your mouse movement speed.

If you mean some other arbitrary note duration that would be less practical:

- Right-click bass drum channel
- select Piano Roll
- click once at the start of the bar at middle C to make a note
- resize that note to the correct size, eg. 1/8th, 1/32nd
- click Paint
- drag across the bar to fill it with the appropriately sized notes

For other patterns you may find it easier to use Options->Tools->Chop. For example choosing the 'Third-Beat' quantization pattern for the Chop tool will break your bar-long note into 12 triplets.

Quote:

Again, no. I strongly doubt you could do it faster than you could in NWC.

Probably the quickest way to do this in FL is to chop up the whole bar as stated above, then hold down the right mouse button to delete the notes from beats 1, 3 and 4. Then fill in those spaces with 1/8th notes.

Maybe that would take marginally longer than in NWC, but not immensely so, and you have to expect all packages to have some differences. There are some quite complex rhythms that I can easily create using FL's chopping tool which would be a nightmare to implement using standard notation in the packages I have used due to all the syncopation.

Also, as I mentioned before you can also create triplets by hand. Double-clicking on a note event allows you to fine tune the duration and starting position of a note. Obviously you just reduce the duration by 1/3.

Just to be fair, GPO is actually a great product. Especially if you're doing classical renditions that require specific ensembles, because it has a nifty tool that allows you to build a custom ensemble. But if you're wanting that full, Hollywood sound, go with EWQLSO. EWQLSO Silver can be had for $300 and can be later upgraded to EWQLSO Gold ($1,000) with 100% of your initial purchase being applied to the upgrade - so you don't lose a penny of your investment when you upgrade. Both GPO and EWQLSO Silver have their strengths and weaknesses, but if you want something that you can incrementally upgrade without losing a penny and that sounds "BIG" right out of the box, go with EWQLSO. If you want the ability to create your own ensembles and if you're in to classical mock-ups, then go for GPO.

Quote:

Let me make an example file using the FL keys. http://www.soundtempest.net/z/triplets.flp And if you absolutely can't bear to re-sequence that every time (took me a few seconds), just save the pattern data so you can drag it from the browser. Also, everyone I have talked to that uses sample banks for composing orchestral music says that GPO is total garbage. Now, I've never used it, but that's just what they say. They recommend EWQLS, as another poster mentioned, or, if you want to go a bit higher, EWQLG (gold).

Oh okay, thanks. I'll take a look at it.

Quote:

Dr Mean, to be fair, you've come into this thread with a bit of an attitude, saying 'FL Studio IS slow' and 'all these programs are very flawed'. You have to expect slightly indignant responses with that sort of tone.

I've come with no "attitude". It's all an illusion you're creating for yourself. I said I am slow in FL Studio. I said FL Studio is flawed, for people like me.

Quote:

There's the attitude again - not once did I tell you that you shouldn't want notation, but I was making the point that alternatives to notation have many benefits, especially in non traditional music, and that is why notation is not a priority in sequencers like Fruity Loops. I did once make the personal opinion that I prefer the piano roll, and backed it up with a little theory, but that's not the same as trying to tell you what to do.

I was not directing that at you at all. I was making a general statement about the forum, based on what I've seen happen.

Quote:

What do you mean by 16th note bass drum run? If you just mean 16 notes in one bar, then that's a case of left-clicking and dragging across the 16 entries on the bass drum channel, which will take between 5 and 25 milliseconds depending on your mouse movement speed.

I mean 16th notes down the line... I really would like to challenge you or someone. I can't see how you could do it faster than me in NWC. This is what I do... put the cursor on the E line, and tap this sequence: enter enter down down enter enter down down enter enter down down enter enter. Keep in mind I can do that faster than a lot of people because I just do that every day basically. But still, I think it's much faster than clicking in one spot, then another then another, then adjusting the lengths of the notes. I should challenge someone really, but that 's not the point of the topic. I'm just going to ignore anyone who digresses anymore... it's pointless.

Quote:

Probably the quickest way to do this in FL is to chop up the whole bar as stated above, then hold down the right mouse button to delete the notes from beats 1, 3 and 4. Then fill in those spaces with 1/8th notes. Maybe that would take marginally longer than in NWC, but not immensely so, and you have to expect all packages to have some differences. There are some quite complex rhythms that I can easily create using FL's chopping tool which would be a nightmare to implement using standard notation in the packages I have used due to all the syncopation. Also, as I mentioned before you can also create triplets by hand. Double-clicking on a note event allows you to fine tune the duration and starting position of a note. Obviously you just reduce the duration by 1/3.

Yeah it's all cool with the triplets now. I see how to do them in FL now.

Quote:

Just to be fair, GPO is actually a great product. Especially if you're doing classical renditions that require specific ensembles, because it has a nifty tool that allows you to build a custom ensemble. But if you're wanting that full, Hollywood sound, go with EWQLSO. EWQLSO Silver can be had for $300 and can be later upgraded to EWQLSO Gold ($1,000) with 100% of your initial purchase being applied to the upgrade - so you don't lose a penny of your investment when you upgrade. Both GPO and EWQLSO Silver have their strengths and weaknesses, but if you want something that you can incrementally upgrade without losing a penny and that sounds "BIG" right out of the box, go with EWQLSO. If you want the ability to create your own ensembles and if you're in to classical mock-ups, then go for GPO.

Hmmm.... I see. Maybe I'll just get both then. ^^ EDIT** Oh wait.... I already have GPO. I forgot to tell you.... I'll check out the EWQLSO. What does that stand for anyway? **

Thanks for your help. I think I've got all the information I need. If you want to just list some other links, be my guest. That would be appreciated also.


Thanks,
Dr. Mean

I use Reason to orchestrate scores all the time. Reason 2.5 has an extremely powerful NN-XT piano/strings library known as Orkestra. Its awesome..any kind of stuff like that, not all beats and techno..

Quote:

Original post by Dr Mean I've come with no "attitude". It's all an illusion you're creating for yourself. I said I am slow in FL Studio. I said FL Studio is flawed, for people like me.

"I'm just trying to prove my point, that all these programs are very flawed".

"it's slow to write music with"

"And yes, FL Studio IS slow."

I suggest you pick your wording more carefully if you don't want to be challenged on it.

Quote:

I mean 16th notes down the line... I really would like to challenge you or someone. I can't see how you could do it faster than me in NWC. This is what I do... put the cursor on the E line, and tap this sequence: enter enter down down enter enter down down enter enter down down enter enter. Keep in mind I can do that faster than a lot of people because I just do that every day basically. But still, I think it's much faster than clicking in one spot, then another then another, then adjusting the lengths of the notes.

Which is why in FL you wouldn't do that. Choose the duration, then click and drag across the bar. If it's 16th notes, then you do it on the step sequencer and if it's some other duration you set it as the standard quantisation and do it in the piano roll. You may have to change the duration of the first note but then the others will follow it.

Quote:

I suggest you pick your wording more carefully if you don't want to be challenged on it.

True, I should've been more specific. But people shouldn't want to argue anyway, which is why you shouldn't reply to this line right here, contradicting me. Nor shall I do the same to you from here on.

Quote:

Which is why in FL you wouldn't do that. Choose the duration, then click and drag across the bar. If it's 16th notes, then you do it on the step sequencer and if it's some other duration you set it as the standard quantisation and do it in the piano roll. You may have to change the duration of the first note but then the others will follow it.

I see... is there a website where I can get a bunch of FL tutorials?


thanks,
Dr. Mean

Not that I am aware of. FLStudio is very popular, but it's so easy to use that most people figure it out themselves. I certainly did. If you do need help, however, I suggest the OCremix.org "Remixing" forum (it's not only for remixing video game music, but any music creation related info, and there are LOTS of skilled FL users there). I'm also available for help on AIM at silverfact99.

Cool, thanks.

Well, that program DOES exist... but it's for Mac. It's called Logic. I hate to sound like a smug Mac user, especially since I don't own one... but Logic is pretty amazing. With EXS24 (part of Logic), you get support for all of those sound libraries... it has a lot of softsynths that may not be the best, but are pretty good for bundled stuff. Ditto on the effects dept. It isn't especially easy to work with at first, but it's not that hard either. It has good notation abilities, though not as high as Sibelius (which, btw, is a lot faster on a Mac using the keyboard).

If you ever run into a lot of money, you might check that out.