*theoretical* : I'm not a developer or even a programmer, really I've heard, and I'm convinced, that archetypal symbols based games could be a strong educational tool. Especially in a future where VR taps directly into the brain (shiver). But this doesn't mean that these games can't be fun. So the idea I have is for a role-playing style first person game, maybe similar to Morrowind, only with more interaction between players. There would have to be several founders, each representing a particular cosmology and school of magic. Each school would have a kind of skills tree, made up of symbols which would have to be interpreted to gain levels (they would have to be kept secret, so there wouldn't be an online directory of answers). I guess I'm drawing from the Harry Potter games too, sort of like drawing the symbols before you can cast the spell... Anyway, I imagine that there might be a limited number of people that could gain access to the secrets at a time. Either there would be a false community of NPCs that compete for membership in the societies, or it would have to be an online community. In the second case, society directors would have the power to deny membership to aspiring questors, so there would be a great deal of mystery surrounding what exactly would be required for membership in the societies (a quest, or answering a riddle, etc.) Maybe there would be trials in which one could only enter periodically, and there would be random questions from a selection rated at that skill level. Some of the mystery would be surrounding artifacts, which would be one of the only means of attaining power. Maybe each artifact would be made at the request of the players by the design company itself. I'm picturing that there would be warriors too, that you could combine classes, which makes room for all the people that don't want to mess with the symbology. Maybe, to make it more interesting, there would be directors of the socieities based on geographic region in the US, so that there wouldn't be one ultimate symbologist that dominated everybody (obviously, though, game skills weigh in too, and dedication). I'm hoping there will be a game like this when VR really hits the market, so the interface is one of the major draws to playing the game. I imagine there would be a way to assign spells to particular hand movements and gestures, even to spoken words ("words of power"). My main question is, does anyone else have interest in a game based on knowledge of symbols, or a theoretical knowledge of symbols? Such a game would be immersive, so that, as with level-gaining in Morrowind, its a delight but secondary to the play of the game, questing and so on. I'm trying to establish that this level-gaining would be like a knowledge of runes in the Norse cosmos, partly a language and partly a set of secret keys. I guess the main feasibility issue, is how to market such a game to the public? Its my belief that acquisition of symbol-knowledge is fundamental to the human learning process, its one of the secret passions that many of us share, and could thus be construed as one of the best foundations for a game. (See link at my website for HipBone games http://www.geocities.com/drypress) A question for developers is, how long can it take before such a game is possible--especially with true VR? Maybe not in my lifetime. But what is the next best thing? Couldn't we at least use a 3-d environment for sharing poetry--in character? All I want is some encouragement that this future is possible. I've seen wonders already... Also, what could make a secret society game work? What would keep the secrets from spreading out to the web? We couldn't simply change the answers to the questions, because pretty soon it would get really ridiculous. Couldn't this type of game be a collaboration among many unpaid participants? Make the software available online and people will find it, and something will be born of the ether... Even without the first-person aspect, there could be a game in which people write poems to advance levels. How could such a game be encorporated into a VR interface, a network of friends sharing ideas?...

Why knowledge of symbols? Symbols have a meaning, and if you use real symbols to explain thing then it would be beneficial to learn use fill things, which is better than making up things fantasy things that would fill the mind up like junk food.

Secret societies seem kind of silly since what do they have to keep secrets of? Are they afraid that the other might know what you know and might convert, lol I would think not. It is like playing risk where you can’t see your opponent’s strategy unlike chess. I think that the more options and freedom in a game the better.

Well having secret societies have a good side like being in an organization. Here are some true things. For instance Hasidic Jews are a tight community and they help out each other and not someone else. To join you have to be Jewish and show that you are in your actions but participating in the synagogue. The Jewish community helps you out and one thing they say is that if you have 4 kids they will help pay to raise them, if you have 8 kids they will help pay for their education. Not everyone can enter and you have to show that you are them by acting like them. In another way if everyone gets the same chances even though they should not like the government imposing on colleges and the colleges impose on clubs. For instance a Christian club and other clubs are forced to allow the chance for an opposing view to be president of the club, kind of strange to have an atheist in charge of a Christian club. In a society you help out people that have the same interests which an atheist as a president can not do that.

For example in a game you can be a Hindu, which likes the Mets, is a vegetarian, and likes guns (yes I know a contradiction). But you can go establish each type of group and the more members you have the more money each member can put into a group and if the group has a lot of money then they can have decide to have 1 or more hero’s to use the money to buy things for a quest to take on the other. So if you are taking on Yankees carnivore anti gun person then the one that will most likely win will have more money that got the better weapons and better strategy that they picked up in each group. Well I am saying something like what you said about secret societies in one advantage. And many other ideas can come into mind that is almost like interactive political forum.

VR is not that good since it messes with your senesces after. I heard that if you use them for 10 min you should take a 10 min break to get your senses back and that is no fun. As for VR getting better depends on politics, peoples greed and, technology, money, etc. which I would guess we won't see anything soon.

What is the next best thing you ask well games in a since were to have fun and learn while taking a break from the ordinary. You can put your point across at the standard way which is fine, but you don't need state of the art technology to get your point across.