If you're talking "real" role-playing, then any combat skills the character has are merely a small portion of their charactewr. However in a combat based game, those combat skills are what define a character. What good is knitting skill if you win by killing things?

tj963

Catch, what would you prefer the Role Playing Game to be? Since you are the one who says that it shouldn't be based on Stats, Levels, and Attributes. I'm curious since the only way I see your idea of a Role Playing Game lacking in the above working is if it were like a massive chat room with graphics.

The one game I can think of that is anywhere close to allowing you to do basically anything without really any level concept would be Eve Online. But there are stats and abilities. So I am at somewhat of a loss as to what you would prefer.

good points all around. Diablo wasn't an RPG; but you need stats to show a character. Attributes define the character you play. If you find another way to do that, you've just struck a goldmine.

d20 also carries liscensing issues though.

Quote:

Catch, what would you prefer the Role Playing Game to be? Since you are the one who says that it shouldn't be based on Stats, Levels, and Attributes. I'm curious since the only way I see your idea of a Role Playing Game lacking in the above working is if it were like a massive chat room with graphics. The one game I can think of that is anywhere close to allowing you to do basically anything without really any level concept would be Eve Online. But there are stats and abilities. So I am at somewhat of a loss as to what you would prefer.

Well, the point is, there are a lot of possibilities. Someone says RPG and you get wizards, levels, and edged weapon skill ideas in your mind. Because of it, no one can end up inventing anything better, unqiue, or different.

He's going to just design another combative-based "role playing" game, with a Strength stat that does something 0.1% different than any other "role playing" game's strength attribute. People have tried hard to invent different stats and combat, but it all ends up a similar thing. Chance to hit, Health, etc.

My only point is, if you are designing a combat engine, why is it a ROLE PLAYING game? WHAT ARE WE ROLE PLAYING?

I hate how the genre has been rag dolled by marketing.

You want to role play a character. Okay I can understand that, I don't necessarily disagree (I used to LARP, would still do it if it hadn't been shut down [lawsuit]). There is only one problem. You really can't force people to Role Play. It is something that they have to do willingly.

Also the big thing is that even with LARPing you have skills and abilities. You can't have a role playing game without those due to the fact that you are supposed to be playing a character who is developing. Its supposed to be like creating an alternate persona. That alternate persona should have his/her own set of skills just like you have your own set of skills. Otherwise it isn't an RPG anymore. Its a suped up adventure game.

Dealing with you problem with the combat system. The chance to hit is simulating real life. Throw a ball at a target. Get a bullseye. Now do it again, and again. Its more than likely that you aren't able to do that. There will always be the chance that you cannot perform a skill to perfection.

Quote:

Original post by catch Quote: Catch, what would you prefer the Role Playing Game to be? Since you are the one who says that it shouldn't be based on Stats, Levels, and Attributes. I'm curious since the only way I see your idea of a Role Playing Game lacking in the above working is if it were like a massive chat room with graphics. The one game I can think of that is anywhere close to allowing you to do basically anything without really any level concept would be Eve Online. But there are stats and abilities. So I am at somewhat of a loss as to what you would prefer. Well, the point is, there are a lot of possibilities. Someone says RPG and you get wizards, levels, and edged weapon skill ideas in your mind. Because of it, no one can end up inventing anything better, unqiue, or different. He's going to just design another combative-based "role playing" game, with a Strength stat that does something 0.1% different than any other "role playing" game's strength attribute. People have tried hard to invent different stats and combat, but it all ends up a similar thing. Chance to hit, Health, etc. My only point is, if you are designing a combat engine, why is it a ROLE PLAYING game? WHAT ARE WE ROLE PLAYING? I hate how the genre has been rag dolled by marketing.

You're role playing, say, a warrior in medieval times that excels at swordfighting. Does all role playing have to be thought-provoking and pseudointellectual to be classified as such?

Quote:

You're role playing, say, a warrior in medieval times that excels at swordfighting. Does all role playing have to be thought-provoking and pseudointellectual to be classified as such?

It doesn't have to be psuedo intellectual or thought provoking. It just has to BE there?

To also reply to the other fellow,

Quote:

There is only one problem. You really can't force people to Role Play. It is something that they have to do willingly.

Right, but most games don't even cater to role playing to begin with. If I have no means of role playing other than my own free will, it becomes a big work load trying to know everything about the history of the world, my race, my class, etc. Emotes are about as advanced as some games get unfortunately.

Quote:

Also the big thing is that even with LARPing you have skills and abilities. You can't have a role playing game without those due to the fact that you are supposed to be playing a character who is developing. Its supposed to be like creating an alternate persona. That alternate persona should have his/her own set of skills just like you have your own set of skills. Otherwise it isn't an RPG anymore. Its a suped up adventure game.

There's nothing wrong with stats, skills, and abilities. They were invented in the first place to give the feel of a "game." The thing is, these things were implemented in a paper and pen day when computers weren't very advanced. It hasn't changed a whole lot since then, has it? Not to say people who make role playing games are uninspired, but the entire industry deviates very little from old game design ideas (they are safe and make money).

Quote:

Dealing with you problem with the combat system. The chance to hit is simulating real life. Throw a ball at a target. Get a bullseye. Now do it again, and again. Its more than likely that you aren't able to do that. There will always be the chance that you cannot perform a skill to perfection.

I don't object to adding an element of randomness to the lives of people playing games. We could go into a great deal of unrealistic RPG behavior, specifically the d20 system, THAC0 and others.

All I was saying was I'd be interested in seeing a game that focuses on role playing over combat. Everyone does nice combat systems and abilities. Those do not have to be absent in a role playing game! Don't take me the wrong way, fighting dragons is great fun. But where's the role playing incoporated into the game?

It's always just left up to the player. You don't have to force anyone to role play their character, but you could put systems in place that emphasize it, don't you think?

That could be something that would be interesting to see. Especially how someone would achieve that. I think I'll go think on that. I'll post my idea once I come up with it =P.

Quote:

That could be something that would be interesting to see. Especially how someone would achieve that. I think I'll go think on that. I'll post my idea once I come up with it =P.

Awesome. I'm sure a lot of people in the big biz have thought of some stuff (heck - maybe not), the ideas have more than likely been suggested, but I doubt anyone trying to make a pretty penny would include stuff like that, just because they don't want to break the chain of bling bling.

I know I'm such a conspiracy theory hippy. Forgive me =(

I've recently been working on fusing the fun of attributes, skills, levels, etc, with in depth role playing elements. Trying to make them as transparent and "fun and interesting" as possible. Maybe one day I'll realize I can't ever do it myself and post the work.

Until then, it remains in my HORDE. Muahahahahahaahahahahahaha.

I've been writing a story for either book/comic/game for about 3 years now (its a big universe =P). So I understand where your coming from.

One of the things that I always thought would be better is that everything you do has an impact on how your character develops (one of the reasons I like the Fable system).

As for the role playing elements, with MMOs there are servers that are role playing servers where I'm pretty sure everything is done in character. But I think maybe what you have to do is make it more that you have to converse with NPCs in order to get quests or obtain items. Mind you that would lead to some advanced AI in that you'd have to get the NPCs to recognize what the character is saying.