How about makeing battles simular to fighting games?...er...not "button mashers" but like Virtual Fighter...it''s just a thought

Also i noticed someone commented on making the monsters different...well the usual way is to change the stat values around...but doing that makes many of the monsters pretty redundant [i.e. the "white" wolf has a strength of 5...while the "red" wolf has the same stat values but strength is at 6 ] battles then just boil down to how many times you must hit each monster...the player never has to use any sifferent stratigy to win...just hack away
It would be better to actually make the monsters do different things [i.e. the "white" wolves attack as a pack...the "red" ones are loners] thus the player can use different stratigies to beat them [and the difference between a "white" and "red" wolf goes more then a palette "swaped skin" deep]

http://www.gamasutra.com/features/index_game_design.htm

The feature index -very useful.


http://www.gamasutra.com/features/game_design/19990115/remodeling_01.htm

Remodeling RPGs....

quote: Original post by ahw

Wavinator : If you need beta testers for your game, or feedback, I offer my services, I like your ideas more and more They remind me a lot of some of the stuff I wanna do, someday ...

Hahaha! Thanks! I''m going to be looking for design / art / coding alliances, at some point, btw...


I really like the specialists idea, btw. I think it''s cool when you have to experiment w/ various attacks, ask around, maybe get special characters to help you (Jim the Dragonslayer is the only one... but for his help, you''ll have to...)

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I''m wondering, btw, what folks think about ammo for a more arcade / action style of combat. How deep can you make this? It seems like the more significant choices you have, the more interesting you can make tactical battles. Maybe certain weapons vs. certain monsters (fire arrows vs. Ice Wriaths, EMP guns vs. Robots, etc)

Or do you think a flat model is better (generic or infinite ammo)?





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Just waiting for the mothership...

Paul Quote:
"There''s only really one inspirational thing about d&d and that''s
the thac0 idea, everything else in this system (from encumber to skills) is all based on logic that anyone could put together given a calculator "

A calculator ! Nooo another rules based programmer.
Sorry Paul no offense intented, just proving my point bah! what is encumberance unless it adds to the drama, plot, or user expression .

Actually.
It is Philosophy that counts. Even if you reduce a game to combat, think about Baldur''s Gate, which is a pretty hardcore strategy game. It (TO ME) would have been far cooler if it had had a system whereby the characters were powerful and able to have fun battles, where their abilities and limitations added COLOR / FLAVOR to the game.

What i was really saying (now that my heads clearer) is that the ad&d system is good but there is little creativity in the system they use. This is my personal opinion though. I didn''t quite get what you were saying though Wavinator *shrug*

Baldurs Gate was just a straight out carbon copy of table top ad&d in a computer form. That''s all they wanted to do and they did it well. Although i thought the frames per second was pretty bad. But i agree that Baldur''s Gate did open up a fare bit of strategy and tactics mainly due to the fact that you could play with so many npc''s and in a turn based combat system. I really enjoyed that.

I love Game Design and it loves me back.

Our Goal is "Fun"!

Re: Ammo thing.

What I''m trying to ask if whether it''s a good thing to create tactical detail via different types of ammo. Take the Rogue in Diablo. She just shoots arrows. *pluck!* *pluck!* *pluck!* *pluck!* *pluck!* *AARRRGH!!!* She shoots, monsters fall. Not much detail.

But, what if you see an Ice Wraith or Wood Golem, and have to switch to fire arrows? This same ammo wouldn''t work on a Lava Elemental , tho (or would only do minor damage), so you''d again have switch weapons. You''d want to make this easy to do, and this would give the player another resource to make choices about (hmmmm.... buy lots of fire arrows, or ice arrows... well, it''s the snowy mountains, so I''ll go with fire...)


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Just waiting for the mothership...

Hmm. I''ve always thought (though I may be wrong) . That weapons like the Emp gun, should do Some small damage to humans, as otherwise you are just wasting ammo. Also if it doesn''t work at all, is it a worthwhile choice in terms of gameplay?

Ie. If both work on one creature then you have two options, even if one is quite wasteful of good ammo.


Paul, is tabletop AD&D really that bad, I don''t think so? In the Dungeon Master guide it says that combat shouldn''t be

"You HIT, YOU MISS."

It should be dramatic staged battles, where it is like "you lunge at the goblin with the sword, he rolls out of the way "screaming", whilst the other one slashes at your legs from beneath the table. (A paraphrase of the AD&D DMG advice).

Which was Baldur''s Gate closer to? I don''t see that roleplaying is about the rule system, rules are supposed to be transparent vehicles for the drama. Sure they only set out to make a strategic wargame, with small quests, and maybe a background story. (I only got to chapter 3). Maybe a topic should be started on implementing drama, style, depth etc through the use of gameplay, graphics, sound and rules. (See Ultima Underworld and Thief...)
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The floor is back to Wavinator.

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I fully agree with the last post, rules are to be transparent...

I don''t want to see them nor fell them if I don''t wish too.
If I wish to see them, simply show them to me.
I''ve no perfect control of what I learn and my skills in reality, so I don''t think it should be any different in a game.

As far as your rules are nice and reflect a reality (not the reality) it will be ok to me.

-* So many things to do, so little time to spend. *-

quote: By Ketchaval
Maybe a topic should be started on implementing drama, style, depth etc through the use of gameplay, graphics, sound and rules. (See Ultima Underworld and Thief...)

Yeah, well this is really the "Holy Grail" when it comes to designing for a crpg. The rules have to be ostensible to the building of roleplaying, drama, character natures etc. Powermaxing is dead! (in my dreams )

When i look at the layout of Baldurs Gate and the way you can go almost anywhere it kind of reminds me of a grown ups Sandbox


I love Game Design and it loves me back.

Our Goal is "Fun"!

Paul that is one of the most important things that crpg designers should be thinking about. I was extremely annoyed that I had to TALK to people in Baldur''s Gate to find out where sections on the map were. I wanted to just wonder around freeform.

Wavinator, I reckon that realtime combat in ships can be done with relative depth.