Quote:Original post by Wavinator
Quote:Original post by Way Walker
I find them more interesting because their role is more passive. This usually means more forethought must be put into each action.
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Right, I think one reason why they might not be as popular is this. Run and Gun players will find them frustrating, your average player may not like being dependent, and in the case of AI NPCs often don't communicate their plans, so you have no idea of the big picture of what they're trying to do.
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Different strokes for different folks, I guess. Though there are probably things you can do to make them more appealing to more people. Which I suppose this thread is all about :) Just hope that those changes don't "ruin" what I enjoy in support characters. ;)
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No, I think making them games in and of themselves, or even minigames, would make them less appealing to me. I would prefer that they work together with and enhance the more active classes. Like in movies, the hacker taking down the security as our hero infiltrates the building. Sure, there should be a specific skill needed in doing this, but calling it a minigame makes it seem like something seperate. Either don't make it feel like a minigame, or make it part of the regular mechanics (like turret placement in Infantry). |
Let me clarify and see if you still have the same concern: I have in mind a bunch of representations of your skill tests that pop up from time to time. Hacking, for instance, might bring up a dialog with number combinations and a timer, which calls you to solve the puzzle before the timer runs out or you lose some resource or trigger alarms. Surgery might bring up a stylistic anatomy respresentation involving dragging and dropping remedies into key locations, again some timed. Engineering might have a mechanical diagram with a grid overlay upon which you could drag and drop items to change things like powerflow and functionality.
This would superimpose itself partially over your normal combat view, which is a fair approximation of being preoccupied and needing others to cover you while you do your work.
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If it's what I'm picturing, I don't like this idea of superimposing the working area. It would pull me out of the game and into the minigame. I would prefer it (if it's possible, not sure on that, though) if you could use roughly the same interface you use for everything else. I see all sorts of problems with getting the right angle, getting "zoomed in" enough, etc. To give a combat example of the problem (I now realize combat is one part, not the main part, but it's an example), let's say I'm a medic, I jump from cover to cover as I make my way to the wounded. I believe it would be much more intense if, once I reached the wounded, I was still left in the action. To be able to look up and see the fighting and my immediate danger, to be able to just up and run like a coward before I'm finished, to have to force myself to keep my eyes on my work.
Also, this probably goes without saying, but it'd be nice if the timers weren't obvious timers. Like instead of a decreasing bar, use the patient's heart rate, speech, and facial expressions for a medic (this could also make them seem more human?). If the hacking is movie style, maybe a sequence of numbers/symbols that randomly cycle and one by one lock into place (opening of the Matrix, for instance?). If the hacking is matrix style (Shadowrun matrix, not the movie, but now that I think of it, maybe the movie), perhaps a little map as sentry programs close in on your "position". Engineers probably have hand-held meters (maybe you have to actively check how much time you have left?) and gauges on their machines.
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If you don't do this sort of thing, thing skill tests end up being a clickfest. See a door you need to hack? Equip bypass kit and click. Ally with a broken bone? Equip splint and click.
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Yeah, these sorts of things make it seem secondary because there's no effort put into the system. However, superimposing something could make it seem secondary because it pulls the player out of the game. Or maybe I'm misunderstanding?
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That said, NPC gratitude has always seemed a bit hollow to me. I know there's no one on the other side, I know that the game stuck my kill ratio, my healing rate, etc. through some formula, the number that came out was higher than some magic number, and thus it printed certain text to the screen.
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Just out of curiousity, but does this apply in combat? After all, the enemies are just AI which often are given your exact x,y,z and range and sometimes even current action, even while you're hiding (RTC Wolfenstein, elite guards know when you're about the throw a grenade).
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Does the hollowness of gratitude apply in combat? Yeah, the AI's no more thankful in combat than out of combat. Does the reasoning apply in combat? Not so much. The rush, the action of combat are the same no matter what the emotion on the other end. The thanks is not the same. However, there is a special something about knowing there's another human controlling my opponent.
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Yeah, the medic actually is highly questionable in peace-time situations. The biota is pretty vicious in some places despite suits and filters, and in places whole regions are tainted with mental and physical status effects which must be warded off.
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An essential member of any away team? Sounds like fun :)
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I have always seen the need for support characters to be able to do something in the offtime between emergencies, though. A robust research and item creation system might really help here, as would social leveling among NPCs (again, we're talking non-combat).
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This sort of gets to the problem about soloing: Support characters need someone or something to "support". Almost by definition they're bad at soloing. However, I do like the non-combat alternatives. However, what're you going to give the soldier to do outside combat? ;)
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Yes, I think it is vital that you never be put into a situation where you're helpless. The medic, engineer and diplomat should all be able to pick up a gun if the situation warrants.
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I, personally, don't think it's vital. In Infantry, as an engineer you don't have very good weapons or armor, but you may need to leave base and mine for minerals. Minerals are heavy and slow you down. Often you'd find yourself limping away from the enemy under the weight of your resources calling out for the Squad Leader/Medic to summon you to safety. This was part of what made them interesting. Even support characters need support sometimes ;)
