Someone else mentioned linearity in RPGs, but really what needs to be looked at IMO is how limits can be broken, or at the very least spread out. As I mentioned in the post on that thread, all RPGs, even those listed as most "open-ended," are going to have some limits on them simply because there are only so many actions a player can perform, only so many choices they have for conversations and responses. MMORPGs remove the limit on conversations, and maybe give a little more freedom for the actions, but several people have pointed out that CRPGs aren''t really RPGs because you can''t actually choose to anything you could ever think of doing--there just hasn''t been a big enough parser. Speaking of parsers, I think they would be good for people who want more functionality of their games. I''m a big proponent of giving gamers options to play: if they want just the basic, linear, "do this or that" style of gameplay, they can ignore the little text parser box on the bottom of the screen (or it could pop up from a button...that can be figured out later). However, if they get the sudden inspiration to have their fighter run up, make a suicide jump at a dragon, and try to swing to battle axes, one from each side, they should either be able to use a parser or a scripting language for things like that. So, what does everyone think? I would post more, but I''m out of time in class right now... -- All hail the Technoweenie!

Whenever I hear that a game has limits...
I think of Elite. This was a game that gave you the feeling that there were not limits. If you have never heard of it or have never played it, I think you can still find it someplace on the net. There are also several groups bidding to recreate the game or make a newer version with the same neverending feel.

How to apply this to an CRPG? I''m not sure you would want to. Let me explain (or try to).

Usually these kinds of games have a story and in that story the plot for the game is built. This in and of itself seems to place limits on what the game is to become. And usually this means that you must save something from someplace or that your to find something from someplace (the typical RPG thing). In contrast Elite did have a story and it did build a plot but, you had a choice of how you wanted to play the game. There wasn''t a end goal to acheive which, is in contrast to how (C)RPGs are written.

What do others think?

Dave "Dak Lozar" Loeser

Towards the end Elite seems very limiting as you know that you have done everything that is part of the game (completed all the missions, become Archangel or Elite, have more money than God) and you know that there is nothing left.

You reach a point in large games where you realise where the limits are. Ultima Online is a good example as you can get there very quickly. The best way that I have seen at the moment is to just make everything larger and more complicated. A single plot will be limiting very quickly as well; you need to wonder off the beaten track and come across lots of detail that may never be found by most players, but anybody who does want to look for it can find it.

The universe needs texture and you need to feel like there are things happening there that doesn''t revolve around you. When you _know_ that you are the most important person in the universe and get the feeling that everybody is waiting for you to turn up all of the time you will start noticing the limits.

I am starting to find that limitlessness can be a limit itself. Imagine having the entire Earth as your level, with all of the places to go and things to see and do. If you direct folks on a specific path, then you''ve got to ask why there is all that free space to roam in. If you don''t direct them, then they can get lost in all the freedom.

It may be possible that too much freedom == meaninglessness. Even if you have lots of different things to do and places to go part of the problem is that you''re playing a game. This implies that things will end somehow. Take Elite for example: Unless you accept going into some other kind of gameplay, once you became top ace that was it. There was nothing else you could do. Unfortunately, they didn''t put you out of your misery (death or retirement) so you got to experience the boredom of unchallenged immortality. (Must make it boring to be a god, then)

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Just waiting for the mothership...