First I''ll apologise because I''m sure that this is a common topic. I ask because I am building on my RPG and so far I have kept it that the player is swept along by the story. Final Fantasy gets away with it so why can''t I?! Would it be better if I added lots of sub-plots and triggers that cause different paths through the game to be taken? The big problem with this is that you can''t focus on one path so the quality of each will suffer. I wouldn''t mind implementing something to make the process automated so that with lots of small triggers, they can affect the entire game in a preset but automatic way so that I only need to feed scripts in at the right sections. But would this be better than a novel type approach?

As you said, it seems to work for certain games, so it can''t be that bad... however, most of the regulars in this forum are very opposed to the idea of developing Yet Another Linear Story with Some Game Elements.

If it''s a linear story, it''s not a roleplaying game. It might still be fun though, and even be a good story.


Give me one more medicated peaceful moment.
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you could examine LARPG and Pencil&Paper RPG to understand better the problem between linearity, and open scenarios.

Basically the real problem is not wht you choose, but how you do it, and the impression of freedom that the playe should get.
Personally I adore the cinematics of FFVIII (I do 3D myself) and I must admit jsut for those I would have played the whole game. Didn''t have the time though.
The thing I like with japanese RPG is that instead of trying to pretend that they are doing a free open universe with nothing to do, they do excellent linear stories. They do something, and do it well. That''s what you should try to aim for.
european RPG (dare I say American ? after all AD&D *is* Gary Gigax creation ...) try to give you the illusion of freedom by concentrating on "character development" (yeah, right, as in "car tuning" ...) and giving you freedom (hundreds of quests based on 4 basic scenarios, but with different characters, locations, and items to find ...)
Of course, there are miles and miles and miles of landscape to .. look at, and ... fight in ! Yeah, that''s what I call freedom "Can I build a camp site for the night ?""Nope, wasn''t implemented""but you said it was an open universe, with a free scenario, what is I want to be a druid in the woods ?""no way hosey, you are free to *fight* anywhere you want, and look at the landscape, they are soooooo nice, ain''t they ?""yeah they are cool, but why isn''t it raining, or there is no fog ?""come on, you''re here to roleplay and develop your character ! haven''t you got anything better to do than watch the landscapes and the trees ?""you mean *the* tree ..."
and so on and so forth.

So go forth and multiply (or something like that), and don''t be scared by what they say about shity linear plots. As long as we don''t have the technology, do something that *can* be done well, and you''ll be fine

youpla :-P

I played FF7-8 because of the FMV (80%) and because of the story (20%), so did you plan to have FF like FMV ?

You porbably won''t do an FF like (as a general rule do not ever do a ''somehting'' like or enhanced ''something'' it''s bad).

Give the player what you would like to see in a video game and keep all elements you liked from any other game.

I''ve written a story (a nice one) but I don''t ask the player to blindly follow it but rather to build its own story based on story ''elements''.

When we talk about linear story, we mean story in which nothing ever change...
Have a look at ChronoTrigger to see what can be done in the world of non linear story.

Basically all you have to do to make your linear story a feel of free story is to add it some nodes at which you change some events in the story.
Nothing huge is needed, just make sure that the player can see the result of it''s choices from time to time.

enough advice, you may just want to have a linear game nonetheless...

Good luck.

-* So many things to do, so little time to spend. *-

I would advise you to look on Betrayal at Krondor. In this game you have a linear story organized in chapters , even the characters are predefined still there is a great feeling of freedom. This is a good example of what can be done with a linear story...

"Between the time when the oceans drank Atlantis and the rise of the sons of Arius there was an age undreamed of..."

I have always had plans for a non-linear RPG. I built a text adventure engine with the purpose of testing a small world which was populated by lots of normal characters plus a few intelligent NPCs with their own goals and paths through the game. The problem was that it is a bugger to write as I don''t like games with no real purpose to them. There has to be, in my oppinion, a main goal to aim for.

I have already started writing the plot to the RPG but I have kept it decidedly linear so far. I have only really sketched out the details of your tasks but right now I could take all the character profiles, locations descriptions and so on and turn it into either.

I would love a pseudo free form game where your actions affect the world but if you are aiming towards a single goal, could you say the game is really any different than a normal game with lots of event triggers?

I think the main problem is that a game such as this would be much smaller from start to finish than most. The replay value would be quite high as you can play it any way you want. The question is, would you rather play a 40-50 hour long game that you perhaps have 2 or 3 paths and endings, or a 5-10hour game that you can play repeatedly?

I have plans for the intelligent NPCs to construct decent sentences in response to your speech, that way you can hold a conversation with them instead of reading scripted text. This would boost the feeling of actually participating in the world.

Linear stories aren''t _always_ bad...it just all depends on how linear it is. The idea of tossing in sub-quests a la FF is good--FF3 had a several, including two hidden characters, a hidden esper, and a few others--and when you say linear, you can''t make it to the point it''s almost on rails. I don''t remember what it was, but it seems like I actually played an "RPG" (term used lightly) where the only thing that seemed to make it an RPG was you were playing the role of a defined character, rather than playing yourself. You could only walk in pretty much one direction, and you would occasionally fight something as you went in.

Seems vaguely Doom-ish, but it didn''t even have the exploring for keys. Actually, it sounds almost like the first RPG I tried to program (in Apple Basic, no less), but I dumped the project as soon as I realized that at that point, I had no clue how to work with room arrays, and mine ended up being a "read text, push button to enter next room" kind of affair. I think that as a game programmed when I was 6 or 7, that kind of thing is forgivable, but to have a "professional" group do it isn''t.

Anyway, after that nolstagic rant...

Linearity seems to work in other genres, although there is probably some screaming for change (RTS''s in particular...as soon as I figure out how to implement it, I''ll be a millionaire... yeah, right), so if done right, it should work in CRPGs:

quote:
If it''s a linear story, it''s not a roleplaying game. It might still be fun though, and even be a good story.

Well, if you''ll notice, virtually every CRPG in the last decade or so (even Betrayal at Krondor, Diablo, Daggerfall, Baldur''s Gate ) have been essentially linear. My friend Lucas once asked me if I played RPGs, and I said yeah, FF and stuff, and he pointed out that no matter how open-ended they get, they''re still going to be at least a little linear because there isn''t (as yet) any way to put in a perfect, every-word-ever-said-is-usable parser, and there are often only so many choices which can be made for responses or conversation paths. Even MMORPGs (ugh…I hate that acronym), which do a better job because they use a chat system to interact with ~90% of the characters in the world, still have a slight linearity to them, in the fact that there is indeed a limit to what can be done. I guess what really needs to be brought up isn''t linearity in RPGs, but rather limits and how they can be broken.<br><br>I''m sure this suddenly seems to have shifted into a useless rant, but if anyone thinks I''m right, join me on the thread I''m suddenly inspired to start.

linear stories are not all bad, and right now open-ended stories are not all great. just because your story progresses in a linear fashion does not mean it will be inheriently bad or dull...i personally think that a linear story would allow the writer (or designer) to tell the story they are trying to tell with greater easy. and you can still allow open ended gameplay.

take deus ex for instance (wait wait...hear me out ). that game boasts open ended gameplay; the go anywhere do anything kind of stuff. but really the game follows the same story each time through. sure, you can make decisions on how to interact with characters along the way, but this ultimately just decides how easy or difficult the path to the end will be. i tried playing it once through going with the terrorists as soon as i could and playing through like that...you always get caught in your brother''s apartment in the middle. i tried playing through again going hardcore unatco...and again i was drawn to the terrorists, much against my will. at certain points in the game, certain story critical points, there is nothing you can do but one path, to move the story along. so what is billed as a very free forming open-ended game is really just a game where you can do whatever you want within certain bounds, but ultimately you follow the same path to the end (of which there are three). the thing is though, this is not a bad thing. you are given a controlled and engrossing story while you are also given some freedom to decide how you play the game...i think this is a brilliant balance; all it needs is some refinement, and maybe the possibility to play it from different sides start to finish.

i hope that rant was at least relevant, if not helpful .

<(o)>

ahahah Linear stories ARE Role Playing Games as well. All the trick is to give the illusion of choices to the players. The problem is that on a computer you just can''t make it as well as on a Pen&Paper RPG. But trust me, most scenarios in P&P RPG are basically linear, because open scenarios are very hard to deal with, and demand an excellent Game Master, with some l33t sk!llZ (among which, improvising).

It''s not because you are *free* to run around killing things that you are doing an RPG... (read my first post here again, for the ranting part ... )

youpla :-P

MadKeith, I''ll take this over in writing if you don''t want it! It''s better there... please?