if anyone''s been following the XBox, i think the real reason it could hit it big is because of it''s development approach. The thing has that 8Gb hard drive sitting in it, which allows quicker loads than from memory, and it uses a stripped down Windows OS with DirectX. (at least I think its a stripped down Window OS, correct me if I''m wrong) Anyways, how sweet is that? With Playstation 2 you get handed an SDK that is totally different than the last one for the Playstation thanks to all the new hardware, and you have to learn it first to program it. And even then it''s just documentation, so the first games out may not take full control of the system since the programmers haven''t learned or discovered all the tricks, shortcuts, and backdoors to push more speed and graphics out of the thing. With XBox, everyone knows DirectX (I mean, it''s Microsoft, come on..) so the first games will be as kick ass as the rest. If anyone wants to argue, go ahead, but I think I''m being pretty valid here. I can''t wait to see if this things lives up to gamers expectations. ============================== \\// live long and prosper; \||/ die short and rot. ==============================

Why would anyone want to buy a system so you can run the same exact DirectX programs on the same OS and not spend oodles and oodles of cash for it?

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A wise man once said "A person with half a clue is more dangerous than a person with or without one."

Let me get this straight first off: At first glance it does appear that MS is making some good choices for XBOX...but who can tell the future?the

First off I think an OS in a console is not the best idea...I mean enough can go wrong in a game much less having an OS to screw you over also.

Yes the PS2 is convoluted and hard to program for BUT most of the hard part is the graphics. The rest is just c/c++ and directly portable/easy to write. As for PS2 ''tricks'', many ways of pushing the hardware are known, and I highly doubt there are many ''tricks'' waiting to be discovered. Sony is very generous in helping their devolpers to push the machine.

And it actually seems as if you imply that somehow a few extra polygons will make a game better (unless you play games for eye candy).

And the bottom line is this: In term of polygon/pixel pushing, the real place where consoles win over PCs is the specialization of hardware. For example, the PS2 has 3 processors (Core, VU0, VU1), with the whole system designed from the ground up to push polys. Where the XBox is using non-specialized hardware (pentium) and old school design (just add a graphic processor).

Don''t get me wrong, I think that the XBox could have some pontential, but until I see some hard results I will not be over-optimistic. Hell, the NVidia chip hasn''t even been made yet, so nearly all discussion is speculative.

Mike

A full blown OS on a console would probably be a bad choice, but I seriously doubt MS will put a full OS on par with even CE. I''m guessing the Direct X will be a thin layer above the hardware for source compatibility reasons only.

The X Box will have the major advantage that consoles have, consistent configuration. DirectX was devised to provide as consistent an interface to disparate hardware as possible. Why would they port all of that over? They will just take the barest sliver possible, and maybe just rewrite the whole thing to make it as small as possible.

The other good thing is that there will be no more DLL incompatibilities. Or at least I hope not. Since only one application will be in the machine at a time, you don''t really need DLLs. I guess someone could put code on the hard drive, but even then, only they would know about it, so noone else would use it even if it were there.

As a developer, I would love to get a hold of one of these things. I hope they do what Sony did and release a hobbyist version (perhaps a rigid PC specs with the OS) like the Net Yaroze (but with better development tools).

quote: Original post by Gaiiden

The thing has that 8Gb hard drive sitting in it, which allows quicker loads than from memory

Uhm, are you sure about that?

I think he means loads quicker than a CD-ROM/DVD-ROM drive, but it came out wrong.

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#pragma twice

well, an 8gb hard drive DOES mean more room to download and update patches for games that suffer the same fate on PCs.

i''m going to wait for the nintendo console (for playing purposes, at least). i can run games under windows/dx anytime.

but hey, there won''t be driver conflicts, etc with xBox (let''s hope).


crazy166
some people think i'm crazy, some people know i am

Woah!! What''d I do?? OK, lemme calrify here

quote:
Ventari:

First off I think an OS in a console is not the best idea...I mean enough can go wrong in a game much less having an OS to screw you over also.

Anonymus:

A full blown OS on a console would probably be a bad choice, but I seriously doubt MS will put a full OS on par with even CE. I''m guessing the Direct X will be a thin layer above the hardware for source compatibility reasons only.

furby100:

I think he means loads quicker than a CD-ROM/DVD-ROM drive, but it came out wrong.

OK, I beleive I did say stripped down OS did I not? *checks post* Yeah, I did. I guess, in hindsight, I should have been a little bit more elaborate. By stripped down, I meant it had to have at least a minimum Windows layer that DirectX can run on, that''s all. No desktop to choose a game from or anything like that. I agree that a full-blown OS would be a bad choice. In fact, its totally uneccessary!! And as for the load time, I did mean CD\DVD, sorry. Of course there''s no way a HD could beat out RAM in terms of access speed, my bad. However, I still hold true to my ease of development point - graphics and tricks and stuff notwithstanding.

Well, now that I have covered my ass, I think I''ll go back in the grave that I dug for myself



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\\// live long and prosper; \||/ die short and rot.
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Stripped down or not, I still stand by my post. In my opinion an OS (no matter how large) is unnescessay complication which only gives more room for bugs, stress, devolpment time, and speed issues. Can anyone tell me the advantages of one for a console? To my knowledge, no console has previously had one...

Mike

quote: Original post by crazy166

well, an 8gb hard drive DOES mean more room to download and update patches for games that suffer the same fate on PCs.

Actually, one of my favorite things about console games is that they are released unpatchable--this encourages developers to be a little more careful in their error-checking. The only times my Playstation has ever frozen up were when I either (A) used a Game Shark or (B) hacked the memory card''s game saves. PC games, on the other hand, sometimes freeze up even after installing the fourteenth bug-fix patch, upgrading all your hardware drivers, and making burnt offerings to Bill Gates

quote: but hey, there won''t be driver conflicts, etc with xBox (let''s hope).

Hope is a fragile thing, especially when MS is involved. . . .