Advertisement

Should Random Events Interrupt Missions?

Started by June 09, 2004 04:11 PM
21 comments, last by Wavinator 20 years, 7 months ago
quote:
Original post by AnonymousPosterChild
I''m going to be completely honest. As I read through your posts here, and through the rest of the forum, it looks like you''re really just making the Escape Velocity series with a few minor gameplay tweaks. I mean, the space combat, free roaming gameplay, random factors, all of them are pretty much contained in the latest iteration of Escape Velocity. I''m just curious as to what it is that you are doing differently.





Thanks APC, this kind of feedback actually IS very useful, believe it or not. EV players would be part of my target market, but here''s the core gameplay I''m hoping to go for to distinguish this game:


  • Stealth is a form of standalone gameplay, meaning it''s as interesting as combat to steal, sneak around, scan targets, and track or lose pursuers
  • Ditto for trade: In EV, it''s flat out boring. Two cures for this will be free trade, which has a race to port component and volatile goods and prices; and contract trade, which has a E-bay style mini-game for bidding for contracts and the risk of putting up collateral
  • Ground mode: Hopefully using the same engine for space gameplay, vehicle & person interaction with NPCs that have hidden needs revealed through conversation contests
  • Changing the gameworld by affecting key objects or NPCs
  • Morale and loyalty development of crew


Admittedly this is alot, and some of this stuff is going to get cut (heh, always easier to cut features than to add). But as addictive as I find EV, it doesn''t go in this direction. I''m trying more for the EV meets Master of Orion approach, with a dash of Sims.

--------------------
Just waiting for the mothership...
--------------------Just waiting for the mothership...
quote:
Original post by serratemplar
A "telepathic cloak"? So we have to have telepaths on staff to defend ourselves now? =) Our are there going to be telepathic machines? That''s scary indeed.



Would you settle for telepathic monsters and a playable race that mostly only uses psionics? A big feature in the game are Siegers, space monsters big as a ship that devour civilizations. The cloak is for them, and the Zelenae, the psionics only race.

quote:

I''m a huge fan of random events interrupting missions. The more non-linearity the better. =)


I very much agree! This is great for players who like to find their own way.


--------------------
Just waiting for the mothership...
--------------------Just waiting for the mothership...
Advertisement
quote:
Original post by downgraded
I think random elements are good, if they''re not too far out of the way of the normal mission. So you''re travelling to your next objective and get a distress call. If this distress call could actually refer to the mission objective in some way, it''d help keep your focus. Even if it''s something like the distressed ship fleeing a disaster on the planet you''re flying to. It''d help keep it relevant to your mission and maybe even help fuel your enthusiasm to complete your main objectives.


Okay, this is a great idea, and it should occur naturally with what I have in mind (the map determines the events, so they''re "semi-random").

--------------------
Just waiting for the mothership...
--------------------Just waiting for the mothership...
Okay, just don''t base the game entirely on purely generated missions - they get very repetative (see X-Wing vs. Tie).
-- Single player is masturbation.
Holy crap.

Wavinator. I am so excited by this I don''t know what to say. :D

I am looking forward to a psionic race as an opponent. Moreover, fighting space monsters is a nice reminder of MOO2. Bring em on.

*this coder is dancing!*

(There is no constructive criticism in this post. Just happiness.)
Hmmm, random events

Generally, my opinion on that stuff is that it is great, but only for so long. The FedEx point is very valid. Have a look at the Privateer and Freelancer games as an example, or if you want a very negative example, take the X series. In those games, you have literally no choice but to FedEx through large parts of the game, only because you need to make money to buy a suitable ship for the next stage of the game. (OK, in the first Privateer you basically just traded and flew random missions until you had a maxed-out Centurion). By doing this, you lose those people who just want to get through the storyline without interruption or at least as quickly as possible, be it due to limited time to spend on the game or personal style. IMHO, those necessary downtimes are just a sign of missing content.

A potential problem with "interrupting events" is a loss of "realism". It just is not right when you are on a story mission that requires your presence to save someone from an attack and then head off to save some bozo who couldn''t steer around an asteroid. This should not be possible if the current story mission is "time critical". You don''t even actually need a timer, just make it very clear to the player that not directly going for the mission waypoints will be loss of mission, and perhaps suppress random events for that duration (a possible explanation would be "limited battlegroup communications" or something).

Oh, and make sure to get the quantities right. If you get a distress call every 5 minutes, you''d probably quickly come to the conclusion that there must be a "dumb pilots" faction with a very large base somewhere. Well, such a thing might actually be useful for some low-paying tutorial rescue missions, in a MMO version this would be placed near the Newbie Nebula along with the space bunnies and rats
Advertisement
quote:
Original post by Pxtl
Okay, just don''t base the game entirely on purely generated missions - they get very repetative (see X-Wing vs. Tie).


Can you explain this a bit. I''ve played XW vs. TF, but only a bit (gave up due to the ridiculous difficulty rampup that seems to be in all of Lucas Arts'' space games).

I''ve got a pretty long list of atomic mission actions, you know the standard rescue, interdict, catch, chase, destroy, defend, etc.

I plan to throw in mutators, such as time limits (always generous!), stealth, resource limits, and terrain limits that reduce / enhance your stats.

The last thing I want to be able to do is chain strings of missions together so that states stay similar-- you build a base, the base is still there next mission, you take out a base, the base is gone next mission.

But I don''t plan to hand craft missions at all. Do you see this as a major problem?

--------------------
Just waiting for the mothership...
--------------------Just waiting for the mothership...
quote:
Original post by serratemplar
(There is no constructive criticism in this post. Just happiness.)


Okay, but don''t jinx it now!


--------------------
Just waiting for the mothership...
--------------------Just waiting for the mothership...
quote:
Original post by Shadowdancer
Generally, my opinion on that stuff is that it is great, but only for so long. The FedEx point is very valid. Have a look at the Privateer and Freelancer games as an example, or if you want a very negative example, take the X series. In those games, you have literally no choice but to FedEx through large parts of the game, only because you need to make money to buy a suitable ship for the next stage of the game.



Okay, having played these games, I have to ask: Why is there so little gameplay that the only thing you have to look forward to is a cool ship in order to fight? Why can’t you fight right out of the gate? Why isn’t there a need for shuttles with cheap guns to fight skirmishes among miners, squabbling homesteaders and up and coming gangs?

And why isn’t trade interesting enough to nearly stand on its own? Why can’t there be treasure hunting? Waypoint based ship racing? Rewards for scanning dangerous areas in the midst of tumultous anomalies?

The thing I hate is that we get this choice between a super-scripted, non-replayable game like Tachyon, where you can’t even leave the base without missions holding your hand, or huge empty worlds without meaning because there’s no story placing you at the center of the universe.

There has got to be a better way.


quote:

(OK, in the first Privateer you basically just traded and flew random missions until you had a maxed-out Centurion).



Hah, I always went for the fighters loaded with lasers versus those evil Retros!

quote:

A potential problem with "interrupting events" is a loss of "realism".



But this goes both ways. If a region is pirate infested and generates alot of pirate encounters, will you find it odd that they’re suddenly quiet everytime you get a mission?

Worse, yet, you could easily use this system to powermax: Take a mission you have no intention of finishing just to get to a lucrative trade area. In pirate infested communities, prices would be sky high due to scarcity. So you just take a mission, the game quiets the encounters, and then you make a killing without any risk—which becomes VERY boring.

quote:

It just is not right when you are on a story mission that requires your presence to save someone from an attack and then head off to save some bozo who couldn't steer around an asteroid.



Right there I see that as a problem: By creating a bozo who couldn’t steer mission, you lose respect for the other NPCs. But what about someone who’s been disabled in a system filled with dangerous fast moving gas and dust? I’ve changed the situation only to see if that makes any difference in how you feel.

quote:

This should not be possible if the current story mission is "time critical". You don't even actually need a timer, just make it very clear to the player that not directly going for the mission waypoints will be loss of mission, and perhaps suppress random events for that duration (a possible explanation would be "limited battlegroup communications" or something).


What if the game told you there would be a tradeoff via dialog / NPCs. For instance, you get a mission to disable a jumpgate before a main invasion force gets through. Skirmishes already dot the system, though. Your mission giver says to you, “Don’t get distracted out there. If you don’t disable that gate in time, this system is lost.” And it would be, the system would change hands if you failed.


quote:

Oh, and make sure to get the quantities right. If you get a distress call every 5 minutes, you'd probably quickly come to the conclusion that there must be a "dumb pilots" faction with a very large base somewhere.


I agree pacing is important, but I can’t not see making allowances for large-scale situations like war and disaster. But otherwise, I think you’re right.


--------------------
Just waiting for the mothership...

[edited by - Wavinator on June 10, 2004 12:49:49 AM]
--------------------Just waiting for the mothership...
I agree with the dialogue thing, and was about to post it myself. But, don''t just tell the player when the get the first mission, but also tell them when the get the distracting mission: "Sir, we have recieved a distress call from a ship under atack. Should we continue to the jumpgate or rescue the ship captain? We probably only have time for one."

--------------------------------------
I am the master of stories.....
If only I could just write them down...

I just saw this quote and had to put it here, "Just look at 99% of entertainment, it''s all in your face detritus."
I am the master of ideas.....If only I could write them down...

This topic is closed to new replies.

Advertisement