I have a species whose individuals appear to be large, partially exploding metal balls that project curved blades. They don''t move at all, instead teleporting next to things to interact with them. Their starships also strictly teleport as well. To move, an individual or ship appears simultaneously at the start and end location, and can be attacked in both places while doing so. While moving, their natural defenses, a self-generated shield, temporarily drop, but their armored bodies still reduce some incoming damage. Ships and individuals have a special amount of stored teleport energy they use to move. The larger the "storage tank" of energy, the farther the ship or individual can move. The smaller the individual or ship, the faster it can recover after each move. The individuals acquire items by absorbing them into their bodies. Once absorbed, the individual possesses many of the properties of the item. Items are absorbed either by touch or by using a natural "tractor beam" to pull objects close (this also lowers defenses). The time it takes to mimmic any object or entity''s characteristics is equal to the complexity of the object or entity. Acquiring the properties of stone, for instance, is relatively quick, but a laser gun must be slowly dematerialized before the individual can use its body to fire beams. Sentient entities can be absorbed as well, yeilding passcodes, secret map data, contacts and other gameplay related info. Whenever something is absorbed, the individual incorporates it into its overall mass, making it bigger (and thus both more capable but slower to recover from each teleport). The species can bleed off absorbed properties in the form of heat and blackbody radiation, losing them slowly over time. Players who play this species, called the Xinzau ("Zen-zow"), may be pitting themselves against foes who can manuever by foot, wheel or thruster. In combat, say against humanoids, they may have trouble advancing directly in open fields, but can use cover in other environments. If they can get close to enemies, they may be able to draw them into their blades, or even partially teleport into them. Humanoids would have to generate expensive "anti-teleport" shields to keep them out of certain areas. In space combat versus moving ships they would have to strategically place themselves and either defend or hop from place to place out of range of the enemy, performing hit and run attacks. The species trades for resources it cannot duplicate or must consume. In order to level up, the species integrates items into individuals or absorbs components of other ships. Individuals can split at will, reducing their stats and teleport energy by half, radiate damage passively by bleeding off characteristics, but ships cannot. Upgrade paths include the ability to teleport more quickly even at larger sizes, and increased natural shield power and tractor beam range. Special resources allow an individual to temporarily share its characteristics with all nearby individuals, as well. Does this at all sound interesting to play? Do you see potential pitfalls, especially versus mobile species. If you''ve been following my other posts about running a ship, btw, this species is a common-mind blended with the ship. The ships are "Ontological Fragments" born when a planet laced with superconducting filaments was shaken to pieces by a passing neutron star. The violence and energy gave birth to a self-aware collection of planetoids called Mindhome. Individuals among the Xinzau, called monads, have no will of their own. Thus, they have no personality, loyalty or morale to manage. Instead, players manage unit types (characteristics, which is as complex as personality), hit points, shield points and teleport energy per individual. The player''s game goal, persued freeform, is to collect as many unique items as possible and bring them back to Mindhome. They then move all of Mindhome to the source of the Siegers (space monsters baddies in the game) which have been slowly devouring a part of Mindhome and causing it dementia. -------------------- Just waiting for the mothership...

It sounds very interesting, but one problem in particular comes to mind: dead time.
As a ''normal'' character, when you need to get from A to B, you walk/fly/etc and have to monitor and interact with the world on the way. It sounds like with this type of character, you teleport as far as you can and then wait for your energy to recharge, which doesn''t sound like fun.

A plus (that isn''t much of a plus) is that in combat, you MIGHT get tense moments where you''re about to be blasted to oblivion hoping your energy recharges fast enough to move before the projectile gets to you. This only works if there is some randomness to the recharging though, and it also means sometimes you know you''re a sitting duck and there is nothing you can do about it except wait.

Overall, as with all things, the implementation will be the deciding factor on how fun the species is to play.

This will be an epic balancing act. Depending on the cost of different actions, these guys could be invincible in combat or sitting ducks.

Now, you state that they can absorb items. Can you suck up a fission torpedo and launch it, or do you have to explode to use that sort of weapon?

One last question: if these things are devoid of personality, then that will circumvent a huge amount of gameplay. The hive mind will preclude things like crew management and conversation with NPCs, and I''m not sure how trade will work. Will monads talk, like people, or will they have little loudspeakers with which to utter unanimous opinions, a la the borg?

This will be a tough sell. Since most of your dynamics of the game seem to be based on human or humanoid characters and social order, this will be a monkey wrench. You''ll either have to introduce a lot of systems that only apply to the Xinzau, or else you''ll have to just omit a lot of the gameplay from them. They might be a highly simplified game type, or even a less combat-oriented type, since they''re basically archaeologists. Maybe their great combat skill will be escape and evasion, so they can go get artifacts and get out without being detected. Good luck with this one.

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To move, an individual or ship appears simultaneously at the start and end location, and can be attacked in both places while doing so. While moving, their natural defenses, a self-generated shield, temporarily drop, but their armored bodies still reduce some incoming damage.

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What are the restrictions on teleporting? Is it line of sight, only places they creature has been or do they just need a set of coordinates and enough energy?

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The individuals acquire items by absorbing them into their bodies. Once absorbed, the individual possesses many of the properties of the item. Items are absorbed either by touch or by using a natural "tractor beam" to pull objects close (this also lowers defenses). The time it takes to mimmic any object or entity's characteristics is equal to the complexity of the object or entity. Acquiring the properties of stone, for instance, is relatively quick, but a laser gun must be slowly dematerialized before the individual can use its body to fire beams. Sentient entities can be absorbed as well, yeilding passcodes, secret map data, contacts and other gameplay related info.

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hmm, Not sure I like this as the mechanics are currently stated. It implies I could use a few of these to become unstopable. When they absorb something how do they gain its abilies? Do they incorperate the device into the bodies? What about expendable things? Even if they could absorb a flame thrower it doesn't make sense that they could breathe fire without burning some combustable material. Are there any limits to what it can aborb? Or could I send one out and absorb a planet or starship?

You said they can absorb people as well but how does that work? Is fast or slow can I appear next an enemy guard and absorb him before the guard has time to react? Does it work on the living or the dead?

I don't like the idea of being that can absorb anything, it would be better if could only absorb certain things, like organic or inorganic not both, or perhaps just devices that are made from plastisteel.

Edit:
Also you said they gather artifacts, but I don't understand why. They seems to be as you described them mindless sphere that absorb materials and gather artifacts. But I don't see the connection between the two. Why gather artifacts at all wouldn't it make more sense just absorb everything they can find?

You also say they have trade with others but that doesn't make much sense either. Why would they trade at all and what would they trade with? You say they have to trade for certain rare resources and things they can't absrob, but what are these rare resources and why are they needed? Perhaps there could be some element say hydrogen-2 that they need as part of there physiological proccess but that should be some how reflected in the gameplay. May they need to regulary absorb hydrogen-2 to maintain choesion, if they run out if they begin to slowly raditating heat until they completely disapte. But as it stands I can't seem to see why these spheres wouldn'd just go from planet to planet like locusts absorbing everthing and reproducing.






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"Fate and Destiny only give you the opportunity the rest you have to do on your own."
Current Design project: Ambitions Slave


[edited by - TechnoGoth on April 26, 2004 11:54:40 AM]

Hmmm... if humans could create an anti-teleportation field they would have to find another way inside...

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Int scene: Humans are setting up a base on a planets surface, they are unloading various valuable and unique items from their ship. One guard is standing watch over a tuck filled with equipment.

Guard: Heh, this is going to be easy. The only other sentient beings in the system are those dorky Xinzau and they can''t get past our anti-teleport field!

A loud reving sound is heard and several Monads appear riding motorcycles and wearing leather jackets with the words "Hells Monads" emblazened on them.

Monad: Suckers! We Xinzau have developed a counter-measure for your pathetic shield, while we can''t teleport inside it, we can ride in with these spiffy motor bikes we stole.

Monad2: Yah, so we''ll be taking these valuable and unique items back to our Mindhome. See ya later, losers!

A monad teleports inside the cab of the truck and starts it by absorbing the controls. The motorcycle gang then drives off with their items, laughing all the way.
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Eh, okay so this probably couldn''t happen in the game but I think it raises some questions

Can they interact with objects without absorbing them?

Can they use their tractor beams to manipulate object sort of like if they had hands?

If they can only teleport, how do they adjust for relativity (like if one tries to teleport inside a moving vehicles)?

Do they just sit on the ground or do they levitate? (If so, can they sneak up on people from above)

How can they trade if they have to absorb everything to move it? Can they teleport objects seperate from themselves or regurgitate absorbed items?

How do they make new ships if the ships can''t devide and they were all formed from one accident?

If one monad decided to absorb an entire planet (over the course of a few years) would it become a giant superbeing capable of intersteller teleportation or would it just die of indigestion?


Anyway, sorry but I''m just in a crazy mood today.

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Original post by Extrarius
It sounds very interesting, but one problem in particular comes to mind: dead time.

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Yes, I just found this out in an experiment. I realized I could use Freedom Force and make a squad of 4 teleporting heroes. When I pit them against the bad guys, I got mixed results.

It was fun being able to teleport all over the place in combat. When the teleport delay was miniscule I had a lot of fun jumping behind enemies, or into their midsts and releasing powers, but it wasn't very balanced. When the delay was on the order of about 5 to 7 seconds, though, there was some good tension between strategic placement and being vulnerable to enemies. Above that and it was either nerve-wracking or irritating.

I noticed I had to pause the game alot and think about where I would be going. This could be a problem in multiplayer.

The major problem is that there was no subtlety with terrain, and if you made a slight mistake (blocked line of sight, for example), you were temporarily screwed.

Maybe the idea can be salvaged by making these guys move very slowly? If the player has to make a tradeoff between teleporting and using defenses, that might improve the idea as well.

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A plus (that isn't much of a plus) is that in combat, you MIGHT get tense moments where you're about to be blasted to oblivion hoping your energy recharges fast enough to move before the projectile gets to you. This only works if there is some randomness to the recharging though, and it also means sometimes you know you're a sitting duck and there is nothing you can do about it except wait.

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I noticed with a number of units that randomness occurred simply because I was having to wait for different recharge times for the different units. But you're right, nobody likes to be helpless.



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Just waiting for the mothership...

[edited by - wavinator on April 27, 2004 6:01:47 PM]

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Original post by TechnoGoth
What are the restrictions on teleporting? Is it line of sight, only places they creature has been or do they just need a set of coordinates and enough energy?

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They can move anyplace you can see on the map. They can''t move into unseen or blacked out areas (assuming a zoomable 3rd person perspectivie here).

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hmm, Not sure I like this as the mechanics are currently stated. It implies I could use a few of these to become unstopable. When they absorb something how do they gain its abilies?

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When they absorb something they take on (baloney science alert ) the quantum waveform patterns of the object, but do not change their own structure. The two overlap.

The real game application of this ties into the vulnerabilities and immunities that exist for objects in the game. When a player chooses to do so, he/she may have a monad adopt properties of a nearby object. The player simply clicks on the object (bulkhead, item, whatever) and the monad''s molecular structure reconfigures itself to match the waveforms of the item.

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Do they incorperate the device into the bodies?

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Sort of. They incorporate the energy in diffused form and destroy the object in the process.

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What about expendable things?

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Yes, though this would be of limited use because they cannot be used as the expendible thing. For instance, they could take on the properties of a health pack, which might help for stealth purposes versus long-range scans of other ships. But they would not BE a health pack, they would only have its properties.

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Even if they could absorb a flame thrower it doesn''t make sense that they could breathe fire without burning some combustable material.

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Right. They can emit fields, however, that have some of the properties of a flame thrower (flame damage, for instance, and ability to ignite other nearby objects).

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Are there any limits to what it can aborb?

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For leveling purposes, monads will start out with point system that determines what they can and can''t absorb. I forsee, for instance, "so many points of fire, so many points of radiation, etc." This makes them a bit more customizable.

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Or could I send one out and absorb a planet or starship?

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I think I''ll allow ships to abosrb ships, but limit things for monads past a certain level. Planets I won''t do, but maybe ships could absorb gravity well properties, becoming an attractor to other objects.

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You said they can absorb people as well but how does that work? Is fast or slow can I appear next an enemy guard and absorb him before the guard has time to react? Does it work on the living or the dead?

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Absorption for complex things is slow, so you couldn''t just absorb a guard, you''d have to incapacitate him first. It works on the dead, but you''re still just assuming properties (i.e., corpse, no vitals, human, DNA identity, etc.)

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I don''t like the idea of being that can absorb anything, it would be better if could only absorb certain things, like organic or inorganic not both, or perhaps just devices that are made from plastisteel.

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I forsee that you''d get this tradeoff based on how you configure your monads. For instance, if you level them up to only absorb metal, you''ll be tearing through bases, taking the same damage as the surrounding walls, but be unable to dupe detectors.

Each monad will have limits, and the limit to monads is based on how well you''ve customized your ship.

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Also you said they gather artifacts, but I don''t understand why. They seems to be as you described them mindless sphere that absorb materials and gather artifacts. But I don''t see the connection between the two. Why gather artifacts at all wouldn''t it make more sense just absorb everything they can find?

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My rationale was that they''ve been harmed by the Siegers (monsters) in the game, and are looking for properties which will allow them to free the part of themselves that is slowly being devoured. They are not themselves inventors, and don''t even understand the concept of making new things. Storywise, a Xinzau sees time as non-linear. Things don''t get made, they just exist in different places and can be used when monads take on their properties.

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You also say they have trade with others but that doesn''t make much sense either. Why would they trade at all and what would they trade with?

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Xinzau acquire items, and in exchange trade the exuded energy, which forms all sorts of strange and useful particles. So a Xinzau trader might actually have a loop of acquiring items, setting some monads into manufacture mode as if they were little energy factories, then exchanging the resulting exuded energy for more products.

They can also "embue" items with properties like a wizard charges a staff with a certain, temporary ability. This can also work for them in combat against non-energetic defenses. They could pass through a bulkhead, for instance, by temporarily changing its properties to air while not altering its shape or appearance. This could be a nasty way of setting traps.

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You say they have to trade for certain rare resources and things they can''t absrob, but what are these rare resources and why are they needed? Perhaps there could be some element say hydrogen-2 that they need as part of there physiological proccess but that should be some how reflected in the gameplay. May they need to regulary absorb hydrogen-2 to maintain choesion, if they run out if they begin to slowly raditating heat until they completely disapte. But as it stands I can''t seem to see why these spheres wouldn''d just go from planet to planet like locusts absorbing everthing and reproducing.

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Yes, a bit like that. Monads consume highly specific particles (called strangematter, a variable energy resource in the game). They can''t make this, and it appears in a realm that every other race can go into but they can''t without taking damage ("subspace," the space between real space, which incidently is where the Siegers dragged their fragment of Mindhome)

Strangematter is needed for healing monads, powering weapons, ship repair, food, and starship fuel. It comes in different flavors (Volatile, Obsidian, Null, etc.), and each has a specific use. A monad can synthesize from one to the other, but only at great inefficiency. So it''s better to just get other sentients to mine the stuff, then trade with them items that they need.


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Just waiting for the mothership...

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Original post by The Shadow Nose

Hmmm... if humans could create an anti-teleportation field they would have to find another way inside...

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Int scene:

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Ouch! Here I am thinking of them all high & mighty like the Borg, and you go making the equivalent of Borgs on Bikes.

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Can they interact with objects without absorbing them?

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Yes, they can emit fields as dexterous as fine surgical equipment. So they could punch keys for a door, if they wanted, or activate a ship.

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Can they use their tractor beams to manipulate object sort of like if they had hands?

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Yes, and throw objects them, pull them, etc.

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If they can only teleport, how do they adjust for relativity (like if one tries to teleport inside a moving vehicles)?

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I''ll not be too complex with this one. If they appear on a moving truck bed, they move with it.

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Do they just sit on the ground or do they levitate? (If so, can they sneak up on people from above)

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I saw them, for simplicity''s sake, only sitting on the ground. This doesn''t mean you can''t teleport up on top of a roof and hide, but it does mean that you can''t teleport right into an abyss without falling.

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How can they trade if they have to absorb everything to move it? Can they teleport objects seperate from themselves or regurgitate absorbed items?

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I got most of this above, but a monad could very well make a bunch of short hops, dragging an item with its tractor, disappearing, reappearing, and dragging it. Of course, as the player, you wouldn''t do all that, but if you "hold" an item, then select a move, you see your guy flash in and out, dragging the item along.

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How do they make new ships if the ships can''t devide and they were all formed from one accident?

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They don''t make new ones. Whenever a ship is lost, its like a unique individual was lost, a unique part of Mindhome (the biggest fragment, btw).

There tens of millions of fragments (we''re talking about a planet that got shaken up here). They range in size and shape. They cannot reproduce, but on the upside, the ships themselves don''t die naturally. Monads within them can die from starvation of resources, but a ship can wittle down parts of its interior body to make new ones.

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If one monad decided to absorb an entire planet (over the course of a few years) would it become a giant superbeing capable of intersteller teleportation or would it just die of indigestion?

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Since the monad is absorbing pattern wave information at the quantum level, there''s only so much energy they could absorb. A planet is a HUGE amount of information, and way beyond a single monad or even all the fragments of Mindhome itself.

Thanks for the crazy thoughts! They go well with my own!

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Just waiting for the mothership...

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Original post by Iron Chef Carnage
This will be an epic balancing act. Depending on the cost of different actions, these guys could be invincible in combat or sitting ducks.

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Right. I''m partly off the hook because its an open ended game, so you can make a species that''s weaker or stronger without so much fear of having to have things balanced (they get unbalanced in an environment where the player can choose how to acquire and spend resources anyway). I''m more for them ending up weaker than super-strong, because that will make them just more challenging to play. But this only goes so far, of course.

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Now, you state that they can absorb items. Can you suck up a fission torpedo and launch it, or do you have to explode to use that sort of weapon?

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In this example, they could absorb the torpedo and acquire the properties of, say, metal, mobility, heat, electronics, etc. Their structure then has these properties but is not the thing they absorbed. So for the purposes of damage, they take damage like a torpedo. For long range scans, they look like a torpedo. But they are not a torpedo.

This may not be all that useful in combat, unless you are vulnerablt to some weapons and would like to change your properties. They could emit the effects of metal, mobility, heat, etc. and do some small amount of damage. Or they could project a shield which resisted damage from these types of attacks.

More offensively, they could appear next to a leaking plasma conduit, then absorb the properties of the flame. They would now be immune to all damage but, say, cold (same as plasma). They could then pull an enemy into their body and do flame damage, or project a field at range which does flame damage.

The magnitude of the effect and properties would depend on how leveled up the monad is.

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One last question: if these things are devoid of personality, then that will circumvent a huge amount of gameplay. The hive mind will preclude things like crew management and conversation with NPCs, and I''m not sure how trade will work.

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Yes, this is on purpose. I forsee some players not wanting to deal with all the crew, but still wanting to play in an open ended universe. For them, there are robots, Rogue AI, and the Xinzau as playable alternatives to bickering, jealous, mutineering crew (just kidding, that''s only the worst case )

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Will monads talk, like people, or will they have little loudspeakers with which to utter unanimous opinions, a la the borg?

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Storywise, you as the ship learn skills (just like the Rogue AI-- reuse again) and your monads vibrate the airwaves with little forcefields to speak a language you know.

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You''ll either have to introduce a lot of systems that only apply to the Xinzau, or else you''ll have to just omit a lot of the gameplay from them.

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More omitting, which I''m okay with. The rest will be relabeling of stats, but many mechanics will stay the same. Food supplies, for instance, which get automatically deducted from your stores as you fly around, will turn into Null Strangematter, particles your monads "eat."

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They might be a highly simplified game type, or even a less combat-oriented type, since they''re basically archaeologists. Maybe their great combat skill will be escape and evasion, so they can go get artifacts and get out without being detected.

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I can see them being played offensively, but they have no real overall purpose for doing so. They''re not an inately hostile species, but they''re not all lovey dovey either. They''re main purpose is to recollect the stolen fragment of Mindhome, and they have to get past Sieger defenses to do so. So whatever stands in the way of that creates conflict. Some races might not take too kindly to Xinzau coming through and trying to get access to their new supertech.


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Just waiting for the mothership...