Indeed this would be very cool I know that device what you talking about, it also connects through Mobile Phones and the likes.

For a game it would be cool, but if you dont like the fact that everyone knows everyone because of this device, you could make it so that you could put your self in to a database ingame if you would like to hook up with others or something like that. That way only people really searching for others use this and those lone gunners, or bandit pirates that want to stay anonymous can stay just that..

Just a thought

another method, not quite as complicated:

A prompt window that is visible at the top of the screen will fill the player in on details throughout the game, based on what object he has targeted or is up against. This would include people as well. A person that is a generic character will be named as such (i.e. "townsperson" or "kid") but important people are deemed proper names, ranging from "The Blacksmith" or "The Informant" up to first names "Garth" or "Elise".

Not quite as revolutionary, but methinks it would do the job if your idea proved too difficult.

Why dont you just make like in proper RPGs and play it with a roll of dice ?

If my players want to find something, they just go to the nearest person they can find and *ask directions*
If they manage a roll on ... say, their Streetwise skill, it just happens that they are talking to someone who actually can help them.
Depending on how succesful their roll is, they get great informations, or possibly the NPC they are talking to actually *has* what they want (or can lead them where he can get).
For instance, a marginal succes would let the NPC tell you where you should go to possibly get a better answer ("a turbo charger ? is that for an engine ? I dunno, maybe if you go to the SpacePort district you can find somebody that can help you"), a good success would give you some useful info ("If you go to the SpacePort district and you look for a place called Engines Gallore, I am pretty sure they ll have what you need") and an exceptional success would correspond to a lucky shot ("you are lucky, I happen to be selling mine ! Why dont you come with me and we can sort something out")

Think of it as in real life. You are a marijuana smoker and you want some. If you are good at this sort of thing, you ll quickly home in on the kind of area where you are more likely to meet the kind of person that could direct you to a dealer.

Same thing here, the roll would be modified by the area you are in (a squeaky clean posh estate), the location/building (a seedy looking bar), and other conditions (at night, on a "free trade" planet).
Obviously some things are just NOT available, or very difficult depending on where you are, etc.
There are quite a few factors here, but the idea is still sound, IMHO.
Similarly, you wont go ask a cop where you can get some hash... (well, unless you live here in Ireland, uh uh )

If your roll was succesful and you were given directions, then a new "interesting location" would appear on your map, for you to visit.
Of course, here I am relying on your ability to generate such locations and characters on the fly. Just like in a real RPG.

I dunno about you, but I think it''s a more elegant solution than the "rabbit out of a hat" that you are proposing here.
If you can keep things in the roleplay, rather than use some out of character gizmo.

Of course, a gizmo like a phonebook, or town guide, could be used in character to get the answer you want. You would do your skill roll on the given item, and would get answers in a similar fashion to that used with NPCs. And there would be similar restrictions to the things you could find (i.e. you would get big bonuses for particular things, but other info would be impossible to find. A phonebook would allow you to find a person, but it would be much harder to find say, a particular item).

The difficulty I see in implementing the system would be on the freedom given to the player to ask questions.
How do you make it so that they can look for almost anything, while ensuring that the appropriate roll is made.
How do you let the player ask questions ?

Not an easy one, eh ?

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Sancte Isidore ora pro nobis !

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Original post by ahw
Why dont you just make like in proper RPGs and play it with a roll of dice ?

...

The difficulty I see in implementing the system would be on the freedom given to the player to ask questions.
How do you make it so that they can look for almost anything, while ensuring that the appropriate roll is made.
How do you let the player ask questions ?

Not an easy one, eh ?

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No, it''s so much easier to do things in a pen & paper RPG because you have a massively powerful computer figuring things out-- the human brain.

You could imbed a possible random encounter in every citizen, yes. But I see two problems with this:

First, if the player''s skills are too low, they''ll be back to asking everyone in the whole town for what they need. In a city the size of Manhattan or Paris, that just won''t cut it (not that RPGs ever give us towns this size, but just pretend for a moment.)

Secondly, if any townie is a possible contact, players will sit at the airport / spaceport essentially "farming" contacts. That is, they won''t explore the city looking for people to talk to. It''s rather like sitting on your computer in a chat room. Everyone comes to you, so to speak. There''s no sense of adventure of actually running around different neighborhoods, and there''s no danger inherent in possibly being in a bad place at the wrong time.

With the broadcast gimmick, you at least have targets on radar that you have to physically move in range to address. This theoretically will get you moving around the city, and thus make the city more valuable as a gameworld object.


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Just waiting for the mothership...

Ah but that''s where roll modifiers come into play my friend
If you sit at the airport, mostly you ll be asking business travellers, students, families going on holidays, military crew on transit, traders. So you would get bonuses on your roll for the kind of stuff whoever you ask to would know about.
To get what you want, you would have to go to the right kind of place, and ask the right kind of people, to increase your bonuses and thus increase your chance of success.

I base my idea on the fact that every NPC you talk to isnt just a NPC, but has stats that make him/her a unique individual (from the moment you talk to him, that''s the trick)

See, the power of the computer is precisely in the area which is the most difficult for a human Storyteller : the computer can generate large amount of data on the fly without even blinking, totally fooling you into thinking the character you are now asking directions from is ''important''.
With a bit of experience, a human DM can do the same, but it''s still pretty difficult if you have never done this before.

Another thing I see, is that you are thinking in the same lines that we have seen used and abused by all RPGs so far. That is, "find the NPC with the dialogues".
It''s ridiculous. Why would it be any problem to reassign dialogues to the NPC the playe are adressing at the moment ?

Again, in PnP RPGs, if my players are roleplaying great, and are asking the right questions to that NPC I just totally improvised, and are making the right rolls, then I dont have a problem taking the dialogues and info I had planned to give them later on when they were supposed to meet the ''important NPC''.
But the players being them, surprised me and took another path.
Well, no problem, copy/paste onto the new improvised plotline.
Same difference, and the players never saw the difference.

I dont see why it''s so difficult to separate dialogues/info/interactions from the NPC. Possibly it''s because I am assuming other elements of design in the back of my head which you aint, but still, you can see where I am coming from, no ?

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Sancte Isidore ora pro nobis !

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Original post by ahw
Another thing I see, is that you are thinking in the same lines that we have seen used and abused by all RPGs so far. That is, "find the NPC with the dialogues".
It''s ridiculous. Why would it be any problem to reassign dialogues to the NPC the playe are adressing at the moment ?

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Yeh, I agree. Who wants to talk to every character in a Final Fantasy game?

However, I''d say that depending on the character (if they aren''t totally generic clones) there might be some different ''stylistic'' choices. Ie. One person would tell you something differently to another. But I suppose you could just have 3-7 standard sentences.. and a list of different words that could be substituted.

These bandits have really been getting in the way of my mining/stagecoach business, my brother / friend / neighbour told me / said that / etc. they live up North / by the River Teoch.

etc.

And important NPCs would still have their prescripted dialogue.

I remember in the Zelda games that when you walked up to somebody and hit "B" it was as if you had just told them your life story. Perfect strangers would say things like, "So you're looking for the Master Sword?" or "Good to meet you! I've heard good things about your Uncle!" or "If you're going to sneak into the castle, you should talk to Jeremy."

Maybe if you could start off a conversation in a number of different ways, you'd be able to get some information from anyone, but specific information from a few. "Can you direct me to the railway station?" might be a good thing to ask anyone, especially if you're looking to get your buttocks fondled *rimshot*, but "Who do I talk to if I want a big illegal ship upgrade?" should be used with restraint, and "Where does Jimmy Randall live?" Would mean nothing to the average citizen.

Edit: I put brackets around the letter B above, and bolded the whole post. Hah!

[edited by - Iron Chef Carnage on April 24, 2004 2:01:57 PM]

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Original post by ahw
Ah but that's where roll modifiers come into play my friend
If you sit at the airport, mostly you ll be asking business travellers, students, families going on holidays, military crew on transit, traders. So you would get bonuses on your roll for the kind of stuff whoever you ask to would know about.
To get what you want, you would have to go to the right kind of place, and ask the right kind of people, to increase your bonuses and thus increase your chance of success.

I base my idea on the fact that every NPC you talk to isnt just a NPC, but has stats that make him/her a unique individual (from the moment you talk to him, that's the trick)

See, the power of the computer is precisely in the area which is the most difficult for a human Storyteller : the computer can generate large amount of data on the fly without even blinking, totally fooling you into thinking the character you are now asking directions from is 'important'.
With a bit of experience, a human DM can do the same, but it's still pretty difficult if you have never done this before.

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Okay, I'm inclined to agree in principle but not in practice. Two reasons why: First, art. In game, asset limits limit you to only X number of costumes and Y faces. You'd have no idea whether or not you've already talked to someone when people look so similar. You could give the NPCs names over their heads, breaking immersion and logic, but then you'd task people to remember dozens of different names. I think the brain deals with faces far more efficiently than labels, sociobiologically speaking.

Second, you still theoretically have to wade through NPCs to get what you want in most cases until you make your roll. I can't count the number of times I just wanted to shout out in a crowded marketplace, "which one of you idiots sells the minigun I need to advance into the enemy's base?!?!" With a beacon approach, you know generally where to go and who might have what you want.

quote:

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Another thing I see, is that you are thinking in the same lines that we have seen used and abused by all RPGs so far. That is, "find the NPC with the dialogues".
It's ridiculous. Why would it be any problem to reassign dialogues to the NPC the playe are adressing at the moment ?

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You're only considering the singular case. COnsider: The system reassigns the dialogs to the NPC you conveniently happen to be talking to. You leave the area. Now is that dialog-response chain locked to that NPC? Or, when you talk to another random NPC, does the the system again reassign the either part or all of the dialog to a new NPC? What happens if you talk to 20 random NPCs throughout the gameworld, making your roll successfully for each? Does the percentage chance that a random NPC having what you want go down the more random NPCs you speak to for the sake of continuity? Are all these guys just going to be, by happenstance, related?

If not, then once you lock a dialog with an NPC, you're back to square one: Searching out that NPC again (God help you if you met her at a crowded train station) and, while trying to find her, dealing with an endless supply of NPCs who don't have what you need.

quote:

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I dont see why it's so difficult to separate dialogues/info/interactions from the NPC. Possibly it's because I am assuming other elements of design in the back of my head which you aint, but still, you can see where I am coming from, no ?

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I think it would be technically feasible, but have serious continuity problems. You end up with two choices:

• Either everyone in the game world appears to know everything, provided that players make their rolls. That means that the butler, homeless guy, shaman and exchange student all know about the secret genetic research base, and you now have to invent a context why, especially the more NPCs the players talk to. Not only does this kill suspension of disbelief and veracity, players now no longer need to choose who they talk to for the most part because the GM will always give them the information, whether they should logically know it or not
  
• Or, everyone doesn't know everything, and in the best case scenario can only act as a funnel to the REAL person you're trying to reach. This is really no different than the interest-detecting gizmo.
  

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Just waiting for the mothership...

[edited by - wavinator on April 24, 2004 11:15:31 PM]

quote:

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Original post by Iron Chef Carnage
Maybe if you could start off a conversation in a number of different ways, you''d be able to get some information from anyone, but specific information from a few. "Can you direct me to the railway station?" might be a good thing to ask anyone, especially if you''re looking to get your buttocks fondled *rimshot*, but "Who do I talk to if I want a big illegal ship upgrade?" should be used with restraint, and "Where does Jimmy Randall live?" Would mean nothing to the average citizen.

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There''s an expectation that the larger the population, the more that everyone''s a stranger. So if you can walk up to anyone and have that encounter be automatically relevant to exactly what you need, you''ll have players thinking that kismet rules the universe.

For this reason, I''m very inclined to have NPCs who can toss of generally known information, random factoids, a bit of pregenerated history worded correctly (such as where they''re from, what they did), and litter this all with opinion and some ignorance. This is just cultural flavoring.

But if you''re really itching to simply get something done without the chit-chat, you''ll tap into the various social networks and upgrade your equipment to do so.



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Just waiting for the mothership...

quote:

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Original post by Wavinator
Or, everyone doesn''t know everything, and in the best case scenario can only act as a funnel to the REAL person you''re trying to reach. This is really no different than the interest-detecting gizmo.

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Yes. My point exactly ! I am just trying to avoid the "gizmo" concept because I think it''s, well, like I said "out of character". I dont like directing my players with big neon signs flashing "this way for the next part of the story", and I feel this is exactly what the gizmo does : "let''s cut the chase and give you the XP right now". This implies that the rest of the world is going to be boring and repetitive and can be safely ignored.
Why not just play Experience Quest while you are at it !
I mean, come on !

Just because the player rolls the dice doesnt mean he has a chance in hell to suceed. That''s what I meant when I talke of modifiers. Just because a player has a skill doesnt mean he actually *has* a chance of succeeding if you as a DM decides that, for dramatic reasons, the player shouldnt succeed at all.
Case in point, my players got visited by a Goddess and one of them decided to ATTACK her (The sheer horror of playing with people like that !). Did I roll a dice ? You bet I didnt.

Same in our case. Some things you can ask for to anyone ("Where is the town hall"), some you can only ask if conditions are met (say, unless you are in the Docks district, in a seedy tavern, no one will know about Seedy Sam the Smuggler. Or possibly you would attract unwanted attention from respectable citizens that would report you to the Guard...)

I still think with a *good* design, there could be some really interesting possibilities for gameplay.
Maybe this should be something to try as a separate project. Design some sort of unique dialogue system that allows for such open style gameplay ? It would make sense in a supposedly open style universe, wouldnt it ?

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Sancte Isidore ora pro nobis !