Hello everyone.. I have been working on this on paper for a long time now, so I decided to make a large digital working document of this whole thing that consists yet only in my mind and on paper. It will consist of 3 parts - Game Concept - Game Design - Game Proposal I have just worked on this and its a very basic start at the Game Concept part of this document. Its very undetailed and lacking in information, ofcourse im not trying to make it easy for me and let you help me making this. I was just doing this because there are a lot of creative intelligent people here, coming with great ideas all the time. What im looking for is some help on what to add to this document, and in what way. I would appreciate it very much so thanks in advance. I am searching for more ways to describe this project im working on in my spare time, and how to develop this Game Concept part to a full fledged working base for the Game Design Phase. Thanks allot in advance Link : http://warhog.50megs.com/Project%20PAL%20-%20WIP%20Game%20Concept.pdf [edited by - Jamaludin on April 21, 2004 2:25:46 PM]

I''ll just make some comments as I go along.

• (Key Features): Living-Breathing World
  Perhaps making this two seperate features (world and inhabitants) would make it easier to flesh this feature out.
  
  You talk about some of the creatures, but you don''t really discuss the actual world. How is the world changing, living, and breathing?
  
  
• (Key Features): Total freedom
  The more you talk about an absence of restrictions and limitations, the more this seems like a project that would require a massive team.
  
  I think focusing more on the "goals with all time/money restrictions in perspective", the fewer unreachable goals you will have. It''s just not going to be possible to allow "everything" without a huge team and a lot of money. Perhaps designing "raw materials" which all have an array of uses would be more productive than promising the world and delivering North Dakota; No offense to the Dakotans .
  
  
• I realize this is a work in progress, but it would be a nice to have a "technology" section ASAP. Maybe say which engine you will be using (I would recommend a free, open-source engine so you can focus on strictly your design implementation). If you are going to have fully customizable characters with different clothing, then you have to have a myriad of character models that all have certain objects mapped individually to them in the design process so that different parts still look good on different people.
  
  This is why games like Fable (long development times) decided to have an archetype that everything was derived from. It makes animations and things much less complicated.
  

My advice would just be to keep things as simple as possible. Be realistic about your goals. This project sounds like a LOOOOT of work.

dgaf - thanks allot for replying, I need all the directions I can get. Greatly appreciated !

Now for your good comments :

- Living breathing world, you''re totally right that I need to flesh out this in more parts, thanks!

- To high goals, I concurr, but this is a learning process for me, and I have all the time of the world, haha...

- Tech. Section, I''ll add this ASAP, not sure bout engine as of yet but that stadium will come later.

- Full customilisation, like you said with archetypes, how can I best tackle this aspect ?

Thanks for your great input.. !

I was hoping for some more allong the way, I know it looks bad, but some help is always greatly appreciated. Updates will follow, if some would be interested lol...

Goodbye !..

All great art starts with a vision. You have the vision, now it''s just a matter of executing it.

I''m sure people around here would be willing to give their input (as would I)

Sounds like a very deep game. The only problem I have with it is the lofty ''total freedom'' goals. By definition, there cannot be ''total'' freedom, so your goal is to find a way to make players ''feel'' like there are no (or at least few) limitations. Even our real world has limitations...I can''t make a radio out of a coconut. I can think of a few ways you might approach this, but they''re all fairly deep and complex, not easy at all do to, I''m sure, but the still cannot offer ''complete freedom''. Even the idea of having complete customizable control over your look is asking for a lot.

I think that you should definately expand on the idea a bit, and maybe put a bit more thought into the overall concept of the game. Having complete freedom to do whatever I want in a virtual world would be fun, but without any other direction or goal, I don''t know what would keep me coming back for more. I can only wander around and try to make money and get food for so long...what, as a player, am I trying to achieve?

Thanks again and !

dgaf - thanks for your words, I indeed have a vision for a long time I decided it was that time to make it come true. thanks !

Anonymous poster - Your totally right, I did not mean totall freedom, I meant well ALMOST infinite freedom, the ultimate goal can be many, it depends on the players, its aimed at online play in sessions, I dont yet know of the number of people simultaniously.

It should be a high number, cos of the societys that will arise, and groups made, and settlements started.
Some goals are, making youyrself self sufficient, start a monoplyizing busniss in this just devasted world, but the main idea is the rebirth of a planet.

That players in their own way help rebuild civilization, as they see fit, this can be through alliances or wars, so it just really depens. But those are some goals. Thanks for your input it was again tottaly valid, and you made me something clear. Thanks the both of you :D

A tiny update to keep the ball rolling changed it to the suggestions that yall made, adding the Tech. Sec. 2day as well.



[edited by - Jamaludin on April 19, 2004 4:48:38 PM]

You describe an interesting world-building exercise, and it might be a good project for a graduate thesis or simple research, but where''s the game? What are the objectives? It''s an existential void right now, and you''ll never get past that without some kind of structure.

When you build a world, you have to inject it with some kind of creative essence. The reason people hate Nietzsche, Heidegger and Derrida is because their ideas are contrary to the basic teleological assumption that there''s a reason for our existence and that we can somehow be better or worse depending on our decisions.

Regardless of how you deal with the essential characteristics of the world you''re creating, the simple underlying world is going to be an epic undertaking. Take a look at the last half-dozen or so of the threads Wavinator has started. He has so many systems that he''ll have to balance, and so many variables to track, that he''s all but drowning in algorithms and interactions. Only by virtue of his excellent organizational skills and his open-mindedness has he been able to keep his ducks on a row.

Now imagine what your world will be like, even without the player interacting with it. Look at all the different events, progressions, and objects you''ll have to put in. You''ll need food chains, watersheds, seasons, climates, wind currents, and growth cycles. Imagine, if you will, the amount of programming that will be required to make a fox chase a rabbit. For practice, write an algorithm to govern flocking behavior in birds or fish. It''s been done before, and is generally considered to be fairly rudimentary, but I think you''ll find that it is quite a challenge.

When you''ve built a world that can be self-sustaining, your work will have just begun. Good luck with your project, you''re sure to learn a great deal, but you''ve chosen a long and stony road. Take your time, and don''t lose your good attitude.

Wow some hefty uber valid posts Chef Carnage , thanks ! now let me see :

Your vision is totally right, but as of now I am indeed totally focused on creating this world in concept, nothing else (yet) So Like you said im gonna flesh this world out to the bone, what it thrives on, the ecosystem, what groes and where, what doesnt grow and where, what fuilds does it contain, what use will it be to the inhabitants coming later, and so on...

What a coincidence naming Wavinator he is really an inspiration for me someone who is making his ideas come true, gotta have respect for that. And he is surely doing it in a good and well organized way, I already asked him for assistance to.

Its a good way of looking at the world without its inhabitants for this phase, its really good you mentioned it like that. Never looked at it with that in mind, now I will, because now you made clear I have to do it liek that to make this world truely a world on its own..

When I have this world, and im saying WHEN because its not an IF, im gonna persue this till the end :D Then I will build the project from there, just like youre saying..

Again thanks for you valuable input, you sorted alotta things out for me now. Thanks allot man ! And I will try to keep positive about this on the way.. Thanks allot, this is greatly appreciated. Stay tuned for more updates !

My pleasure. Keep us posted.