Yeah. I would really like to see some non-linearity introduced into games. I think that the way to go is random placement of pre-defined quests. I think that removes repetition. You could easily stop it from being repetitious. But I will definitely need to have a look at it. I heard that it was pretty cheap now, I might see what I can find

-Chris Bennett ("Insanity" of Dwarfsoft)

Check our site:
http://www.crosswinds.net/~dwarfsoft/
Check out our NPC AI Mailing List :
http://www.egroups.com/group/NPCAI/
made due to popular demand here at GDNet :)

Yeah, it should be pretty cheap now. It''s been out for about 3 or 4 yrs I think...

I agree about the randomness of predefined quests. Also, instead of randomness, letting the player go after his/her own goals.

Several of your ideas are interesting. Some of them have already been implemented in console RPGs (mostly on the PSX). Some of them worked, some were abused, and some were ignored. Take for example your idea of monsters leveling up with you. It seems like a good idea, but there are some problems with it. If the wussy fireflies (rats, etc.) you fought in the beggining are now doing 1,000 points of damage, don''t you think that they should gave a proportional amount of exp? The problem with this system is shown in FF8, where a friend of mine, in two days, managed to get to level 100 (the highest level) without even fighting the first boss! On the other hand several of your ideas such as (to a minor extent) weight were implemented in Xenogears, another Squaresoft RPG for the Playstation. If you have not played it, I highly recomend that you do. It is a fantastic game, even if it is a little long.

Dwarfsoft, thank you for trying to capture some of this vast flow of information into a useful reference for designers. Here are my suggested additions:

Monsters:
The fact that there are monsters everywhere (or not) must make sense within the story and worldbuilding. So must the fact that monsters get tougher as you progress (if they do). Non-intelligent monsters like snakes, hyenas, whatever should not give you gold because they can''t carry any. Unless you want to have the player collect up their hides and sell these later at a town? Like the bounty there used to be on wolf hides in some places.

Puzzles:
Puzzles’ existence and style should make sense within the plot.
A puzzle walkthrough should be included with the game.
Puzzles should require application of real-world principles, and deductive and inductive reasoning.
It should be easy and convenient to re-attempt a puzzle.
A solved puzzle should stay solved.
No timing or dexterity puzzles.
Puzzle-necessary items should be impossible to sell or waste.


Plot:
Must be intricate, sometimes amusing, and emotionally involving.
Plot should take bizarre and surprising twists.
Branching plots are cool.

Characters:
Opportunities for the player(s) to customize their characters should be available.
Some characters should have strong, distinct personalities (flavor).
Player should be able to choose what character(s) to use.

You might have trouble buying Daggerfall its a very old game and I had great difficulty getting a new copy when mine died. I think you can buy it on-line but I'm not sure.



I forgot to mention that the human enemies level up with you and become far more powerful than even the ancient vamps.



http://users.50megs.com/crazyvasey/

Edited by - crazy-vasey on August 17, 2000 1:23:55 PM

Cheers sunandshadow... I will try to add these in. I am a little tied up at the moment though. I haven''t updated since Wednesday . I have a lot of stuff to do...

Thanx everyone for your Daggerfall info. I will have a look around the second hand software stores Hopefully it is still there

-Chris Bennett ("Insanity" of Dwarfsoft)

Check our site:
http://www.crosswinds.net/~dwarfsoft/
Check out our NPC AI Mailing List :
http://www.egroups.com/group/NPCAI/
made due to popular demand here at GDNet :)

You said that you are thinking about using this document at the xgdc? That would be interesting, and now has me thinking about going. Still making up my mind. So I just wonder who here is planning on going?

-Luxury

i finish read it!!!
i was making a doc sometime ago that was exactly the oposite of the yours. it was about the same old things that all RPG have. like a hero with somekind of mental problem. NPCs being not people .
but mine was more directioned to final fantasy alikes.(i really don´t play PC games)

well, i willing to share one of my wonderfull RPG ideas with you
( i´m so humble... just kidding)

the thing is, you mention in the doc about instead to just talk to the NPCs you could select the topic that you want to talk about, but that old mayor that hate strangers will never tell to the heroes about the dragon, no matter what you talk to him. but for sure he will talk it with someone, so why (cool idea pay attention!!) the heroes don´t wait for it and try to heard the conversation? get it? this open a lot of possibilitys just give the caracters the ability to heard other people bussiness. i´m doing that in may game
so what you think?


So. i was there in the middle of a lot of witches and mages, when she come to me:
-You are too young to be a mage.
-No, i´m not a mage, i´m a programmer.
-How! Sorry... what a bad luck.
-Yeah... Don´t even talk about it...

quote: Original post by Luxury

You said that you are thinking about using this document at the xgdc? That would be interesting, and now has me thinking about going. Still making up my mind. So I just wonder who here is planning on going?

-Luxury

I am not going to xgdc... But I have been contacted about it and Ben (Macintag@aol.com) who is running the roundtable discussion is, to my knowledge, going to use it. I cannot get there, mainly due to two things

1. I am broke
   
2. I am in Australia
   

Makes sense right?

I am happy to see the collective contributions of those on this board becomming fruitful in the game development community. The RPG roundtable discussion is on Sept 30th for any of you who are interested. That is why I am desperately trying to update this document. It would be fairly good to have everybodies discussions and opinions viewed by those at the XGDC.... Have a safe trip, those of you who are going, and I expect to hear the ideas from the discussion

-Chris Bennett ("Insanity" of Dwarfsoft)

Check our site:
http://www.crosswinds.net/~dwarfsoft/
Check out our NPC AI Mailing List :
http://www.egroups.com/group/NPCAI/
made due to popular demand here at GDNet :)

quote: Original post by The Alchemist

i finish read it!!!
i was making a doc sometime ago that was exactly the oposite of the yours. it was about the same old things that all RPG have. like a hero with somekind of mental problem. NPCs being not people .
but mine was more directioned to final fantasy alikes.(i really don´t play PC games)

well, i willing to share one of my wonderfull RPG ideas with you
( i´m so humble... just kidding)

the thing is, you mention in the doc about instead to just talk to the NPCs you could select the topic that you want to talk about, but that old mayor that hate strangers will never tell to the heroes about the dragon, no matter what you talk to him. but for sure he will talk it with someone, so why (cool idea pay attention!!) the heroes don´t wait for it and try to heard the conversation? get it? this open a lot of possibilitys just give the caracters the ability to heard other people bussiness. i´m doing that in may game
so what you think?

Shall I attempt to try and translate what I think you mean. I don''t believe your English translation was quite as understandable as you thought. I needed to read it a few times just to be sure

ds Translation of Alchemist:
I mention in my doc that you can enter the subject that you want to talk about. The mayor doesn''t want to speak to you because you are a stranger. The mayor refuses to speak to strangers, but he is likely to talk to somebody about the dragon. You wait around and listen in on the mayors conversation about the dragon.

This is a pretty cool idea Alchy. I think that this can be avoided though through some of the methods that I described. You basically have to prove yourself to the mayor before he will trust you. I still think that it is worthy of adding though. Any more ideas?

-Chris Bennett ("Insanity" of Dwarfsoft)

Check our site:
http://www.crosswinds.net/~dwarfsoft/
Check out our NPC AI Mailing List :
http://www.egroups.com/group/NPCAI/
made due to popular demand here at GDNet :)