Alright. An interactive game could rule if done right, this I will no longer dispute. However, I become increasingly skeptical of games that directly proposition you to change the storyline. When characters ask the player Yes/no? Or the player has a choice in dungeon crawling Left/right? This is not using the medium to it''s potential. The example I gave about Revenge of Shinobi in the Linear Vs. Interactive thread was this. It wasn''t my choice to save the girl, it was my skill. If I was fast and good enough, she lived, if I failed as a player, she died. This made the game a coherant and understandable story. This is not INTERACTIVITY> I performed no action that I would not have in the rest of the game. There was no choice made on my part. It was the environment and consequences that changed. It''s InterPassive. Great buzzword, I hate it. Exclusive actions are an example of Interpassivity. If by witnessing one event you are missing another in a different place, or simpley from a different POV, an interactive event has taken place. You have made no DECISION that changed the story for you, but another player might have gone a had a different story than you did. Basically, my point is this. Anyone who thinks the potential of interactivity lies in letting the player choose to be a good guy or a heartless killer is drastically underestimating the potential of this medium. I don''t think interactive decisions should have ANYTHING to do with the content of the character. HEll, I don''t even think that the details of the main character should be screwed around with by the players in a story driven single player RPG! Interactivity should happen primarily as an environmental event, and only an active event when it makes sense to do it in context of the story. Sometimes people really do ask yes/no questions... ====== "The unexamined life is not worth living." -Socrates "Question everything. Especially Landfish." -Matt

Interesting subject about interactivity -- although I don't think "interpassive" would work as well as a marketting buzzword as you think .

"Play our fully interpassive demo!"

Now, to make some petty complaints about your statments .

quote:
If by witnessing one event you are missing another in a different place, or simpley from a different POV, an interactive event has taken place. You have made no DECISION that changed the story for you, but another player might have gone a had a different story than you did.

I disagree. If you made a choice *knowing* that there would be consequences, then you did make a decision. Maybe you decided saving the princess is more important than killing the ugly troll terrorizing the city. Thats a decision.

quote:
I don't think interactive decisions should have ANYTHING to do with the content of the character.

That really depends on the game. I don't think you could get away with that in a (traditional) CRPG.

quote:
Interactivity should happen primarily as an environmental event, and only an active event when it makes sense to do it in context of the story. Sometimes people really do ask yes/no questions...

I'm not quite sure what your saying here. Are you suggesting that all actions should be extremely clear in there consequences with nearly immediate results? Is that really very interesting all the time?

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Who is this General Failure and why is he trying to read my hard disk?

Edited by - The Senshi on August 6, 2000 9:51:19 PM

Deus Ex is a perfect example of an extremely interactive game done right. You can do all kinds of things to the objects and people around you, and they all react appropriately (well, 99% of the time). The story is also really really well done. Playing the game is like reading a good novel. Last night i stayed up till 4am playing before i realized how late it was. (which sucked cause i ended up eating breakfast at 3pm today

ok, now i''m gonna go back to deus ex

- Bill©

Great thread,

I percieve interpassivity as bottlenecked design elements. They work in opposite/negitive to the principles/designs of interactivity. There''s advantages and disadvanages to using them but i don''t think that either are bad tools or possitive tools. There will always be situations in storytelling where you will want to tunnel the player into experiencing.

I think that the most important thing to do when assigning a player an objective it to make this goal obvious from the start and constantly supplying them with clues on how they can achieve their goal. This can be done without resorting to bottlenecking the player into interpassivity situations. Using cheese is one way if you''re desperate.

But in my personal view, i would prefer to encourage a player to go through an experience in a game that i designed rather than resorting to interpassivity tools. The sence of achievement for me (as a Game Designer) would be much greater then it would be if i had to force the player to go down a route.

The big issue is is that you want to know what the player is going to be doing in your game. Interpassivity when used lightly will allow you this luxury imho.

I love Game Design and it loves me back.

Our Goal is "Fun"!

quote: Original post by Landfish
The example I gave about Revenge of Shinobi in the Linear Vs. Interactive thread was this. It wasn''t my choice to save the girl, it was my skill. If I was fast and good enough, she lived, if I failed as a player, she died. This made the game a coherant and understandable story.

I ask you one thing:
When you realised the girl was going to die if you weren''t fast enough, did you try harder?
You made a decision that you NEEDED to save the girl. You played the good guy. The bad guy would have thought "nah, bugger it, it''s just a game, I''ll take my time beating the crap out of this boss".
There''s nothing passive about it, the interaction was simply limited to fighting the boss monster to achieve any effects.




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