Well I dont actually know how to formulate this so it makes sense but... Well im generally learning myself skinning, modelling, and a tad bit of programming on the way, been drawing since I could pick up a pencil, im not that bad but not that good either. This doesnt make sense yet but I want to ask some people already experienced with this. Here follows an explanation of what I am aiming at, excuse my vagueness : I have many ideas in my head for a game that goes the direction of a RPG/RTS/SIMULATION and even maybe want to take the concept online for a MMOG, I am at the beginning of the process because I have 100000000ends of ideas inside my head and now I want to work them out. How do I begin at this best what do I design first and where do I begin, what would be a good way to make this a steady process. Do I make environmentals first, or characters, maybe I first start with flora or fauna. I hope its a bit clearer and how do I do this do I first write it down, of draw it or do it both. This was my idea in clean words. I just want to make up a world and everything that goes with it in my concept, so the world itself, its inhabitants, its history, its them (cyperpunk, postacolyptic etc), just everything. So to put it simple how do I start this of in a decent manner ? Sorry for the long and difficult read, and I would love to hear anybodys ideas and suggestions on how to tackle this problem, thanks allot and I am hoping for alot of input, I would love to hear what everybody thinks.. THANKS ! [edited by - Jamaludin on March 15, 2004 3:56:56 PM]

Well, if you want to make a story-driven game like a single-player RPG or FPS, you probably want to create either the characters or the plot first. If, OTOH, you want to create an MMOgame you probably want to do the worldbuilding first (and by worldbuilding I mean history, mythology, culture, and technology, NOT plants and animals.) A siple technique that may be helpful: make a list of types of ideas that you have: e.g. character ideas, plot ideas, worldbuilding ideas, gameplay ideas, etc. Now write down all the ideas you''ve come up with for each category. It''s like panning for gold: you dump the contents of your brain onto a piece of paper and then sort through looking for the things that are original, do-able, fun, and inspiring of further development.

And bring your ideas to The AI Love story->
http://www.gamedev.net/community/forums/topic.asp?topic_id=212030

quote: Original post by sunandshadow
Well, if you want to make a story-driven game like a single-player RPG or FPS, you probably want to create either the characters or the plot first. If, OTOH, you want to create an MMOgame you probably want to do the world-building first (and by world-building I mean history, mythology, culture, and technology, NOT plants and animals.) A simple technique that may be helpful: make a list of types of ideas that you have: e.g. character ideas, plot ideas, world-building ideas, gameplay ideas, etc. Now write down all the ideas you''ve come up with for each category. It''s like panning for gold: you dump the contents of your brain onto a piece of paper and then sort through looking for the things that are original, do-able, fun, and inspiring of further development.

I agree with what sun''s saying hear, i did this but ive taken the gold to the forge now so to speak.

I''m doing an rpg which is {hopefully} going to rewrite how rpgs are played, no more high hp values into the millions while your stuck with a cap of 10k, no more crappy AI''s which means if you have a absorption to fire ability and its on they wont cast a fire spell on you, stuff like that.

I got the idea from playing the final fantasy games which are a mine Field for stuff like the above, i then started by writing down what i could fix, what i want to change and what sort of game i wanted it to be in terms of story line, time period, spells, weapons ETC.

I basically just did as the guy above said, take your ideas, slap em all down onto paper and edit out the crap, then your left with pure gold to take to the refinery.

Hey peoples, thanks so much for you replys and so soon already :D

Sunandshadow - you hit it right on the spot there, so I think thatll be my approach but it would be more of aan MMO design so I think ill define the world and the theme of it first so I can define later on what and who will live on it and how and with what means, thanks ! :D

Siolis - Man you so right as well I hate those stereotypic things, AI is as dumb as it gets in most games, indeed the see that that spell doesnt work but they keep casting it till I kill them, totally wrong ( to name just one example ).
And I want to get rid of the leveling up system as wel I never liked it that much but I do in games that work it out well it can be a joy, same goes for interface.
I dont want to much interface say for a little example, you want to browse through your inventory you would pick up your backpack and open it an browse through it like you would normally do,
and no more carrying around the weight of a car in there,
if it doesnt fit it doesnt fit, to name just one thing.

And about leveling, this is a hard issue, I want the player to keep track of his skills and such but not like every game does it via a stats screen, and I dont want that the player picks his class or whatsoever in the beginning of it, I want it to be more of a progress so you pick up skills as you play the game as they way you want to pick them up, only thing that you choose from the beginning would be appearance and a name and a bit of a identity and such.


Another thing I also dislike is when players have similiar skills and all maxed out then they would both be the same in the world, and in many MMO's nobody really serves a purpose they just can do just as well as the other can in a matter of time, want to find something for that as wel.

I really want uniqueniss as a person in the game. The setting is already a bit thought of, I will be going for a world on the brink of creation, a world thats just beginning after being totally wiped of most life.
I want surivial to be a big element, and I want to see the world progress as well as the player, so it wil be kind of post acolyptic setting but really diffrent in ways I cant yet explain have to write them down in a decent mamner to show them here, and I would love to hear everyones ideas on it as I go on, if anyone would be interested, as wel as from posters like you three, I would love hearing more of you as well.

Thanks allot for pushing me in a direction already, and thanks for reading this long post and let me hear your viewpoints, my brain is so full of ideas its not normal really. Hope to hear more keep it coming please and meanwhile Ill begin work on this concept. Tnx

[edited by - Jamaludin on March 13, 2004 1:51:11 PM]

quote: Original post by Jamaludin
Hey peoples, thanks so much for you replys and so soon already :D

Sunandshadow - you hit it right on the spot there, so I think thatll be my approach but it would be more of aan MMO design so I think ill define the world and the theme of it first so I can define later on what and who will live on it and how and with what means, thanks ! :D

Siolis - Man you so right as well I hate those stereotypic things, AI is as dumb as it gets in most games, indeed the see that that spell doesnt work but they keep casting it till I kill them, totally wrong ( to name just one example ). And I want to get rid of the leveling up system as wel I never liked it that much but I do in games that work it out well it can be a joy, same goes for interface. I dont want to much interface say for a little example, you want to browse through your inventory you would pick up your backpack and open it an browse through it like you would normally do, and no more carrying around the weight of a car in there, if it doesnt fit it doesnt fit, to name just one thing. And about leveling, this is a hard issue, I want the player to keep track of his skills and such but not like every game does it via a stats screen, and I dont want that the player picks his class or whatsoever in the beginning of it, I want it to be more of a progress so you pick up skills as you play the game as they way you want to pick them up, only thing that you choose from the beginning would be appearance and a name and a bit of a identity and such. I also hate it when players have similiar skills and all maxed out then they would both be the same in the world, and in many MMO''s nobody really serves a purpose they just can do just as well as the other can in a matter of time, want to find something for that as wel. I really want uniqueniss as a person in the game. The setting is already a bit thought of, I will be going for a world on the brink of creation, a world thats just beginning after being totally wiped of most life, I want surivial to be a big element, and I want to see the world progress as well as the player, so it wil be kind of post acolyptic setting but really diffrent in ways I cant yet explain have to write them down in a decent maner to show them here, and I would love to hear everyones ideas on it as I go on, if anyone would be interested, as wel as from posters like you three, I would love hearing more of you as well. Thanks allot for pushing me in a direction already, and thanks for reading this long post and let me hear your viewpoints, my brain is so full of ideas its not normal really. Hope to hear more keep it coming please and meanwhile Ill begin work on this concept. Tnx

*hands you a paragraph* dude try using one cus i cant tell where you stop talking about me and start about your games in the second paragraph.

Anyways, thanks for the concurring comment that aligns with just about everyone else around this forum section, fix the stupid game flaws in rpgs and you cant go far wrong.

HEy sorry bout that thats just my excitement talking at its unstoppable way, i''ve fixed the reading of it now I hope. Hopefully some readers have ideas about anything mentioned above and I would love to hear them, and make a discussion about them like the wonderfull " critique - personel management system" thread, its really inspiritional and I woud love to here similiar things like in that thread but then only about this topic perhaps.
Thanks for reading :D And I hope for some more input

quote: Original post by Jamaludin
Hey peoples, thanks so much for you replies and so soon already :D

Sunandshadow - you hit it right on the spot there, so I think that''ll be my approach but it would be more of aan MMO design so I think ill define the world and the theme of it first so I can define later on what and who will live on it and how and with what means, thanks ! :D

Siolis - Man you so right as well I hate those stereotypic things, AI is as dumb as it gets in most games, indeed the see that that spell doesn''t work but they keep casting it till I kill them, totally wrong ( to name just one example ).
And I want to get rid of the leveling up system as weal I never liked it that much but I do in games that work it out well it can be a joy, same goes for interface.
I don''t want to much interface say for a little example, you want to browse through your inventory you would pick up your backpack and open it an browse through it like you would normally do,
and no more carrying around the weight of a car in there,
if it doesn''t fit it doesn''t fit, to name just one thing.

And about leveling, this is a hard issue, I want the player to keep track of his skills and such but not like every game does it via a stats screen, and I don''t want that the player picks his class or whatsoever in the beginning of it, I want it to be more of a progress so you pick up skills as you play the game as they way you want to pick them up, only thing that you choose from the beginning would be appearance and a name and a bit of a identity and such.


Another thing I also dislike is when players have similar skills and all maxed out then they would both be the same in the world, and in many MMO''s nobody really serves a purpose they just can do just as well as the other can in a matter of time, want to find something for that as well.

I really want uniqueness as a person in the game. The setting is already a bit thought of, I will be going for a world on the brink of creation, a world thats just beginning after being totally wiped of most life.
I want survival to be a big element, and I want to see the world progress as well as the player, so it Will be kind of post apocalyptic setting but really different in ways I cant yet explain have to write them down in a decent mamner to show them here, and I would love to hear everyones ideas on it as I go on, if anyone would be interested, as well as from posters like you three, I would love hearing more of you as well.

Thanks allot for pushing me in a direction already, and thanks for reading this long post and let me hear your viewpoints, my brain is so full of ideas its not normal really. Hope to hear more keep it coming please and meanwhile Ill begin work on this concept. Tnx

[edited by - Jamaludin on March 13, 2004 1:51:11 PM]

Much better.

quote: Original post by Jamaludin
And I want to get rid of the leveling up system as well I never liked it that much but I do in games that work it out well it can be a joy, same goes for interface.

Well I''m not sure what ill be doing about the lving system. I have decided on a system where you have a base level and a job/class level which means your basic stats go up with base level and your job skills go up with your job level but unfortunately to fit in with a strong story line i wont be able to allow the player to chose their own class beyond that of what type of mage they are, what type of warrior they are ETC.

I am also doing a kind of mix of the sphere grid from FFX, the meteria system from FF7 and the Junctioning system of FF8 as well as some "learn skills from swords" kinda thing ala ff9, i haven''t even began the class''s and stuff yet but i have some ideas, expect a hybrid of sorts whatever i end up having.

quote: Original post by Jamaludin
I don''t want to much interface say for a little example, you want to browse through your inventory you would pick up your backpack and open it an browse through it like you would normally do,
and no more carrying around the weight of a car in there,
if it doesn''t fit it doesn''t fit, to name just one thing.

Ah, I''m glad someone finally said that, I''m making a kind of energy to material storage system which will work on storage cells which have to be made by the player to increase how much they can carry, also you will need certain ones to carry certain things. EG: To carry a motor bike you will need a vehicle storage cell which cant carry bio matter, I''m working on that so gimme time.

quote: Original post by Jamaludin
And about leveling, this is a hard issue, I want the player to keep track of his skills and such but not like every game does it via a stats screen, and I don''t want that the player picks his class or whatsoever in the beginning of it, I want it to be more of a progress so you pick up skills as you play the game as they way you want to pick them up, only thing that you choose from the beginning would be appearance and a name and a bit of a identity and such.

That sounds mmorpg like to me, mine will have a strong story to it so everything like appearance and stuff will be pre-decided, also me things you kinda blend into your stuff now.

quote: Original post by Jamaludin
Another thing I also dislike is when players have similar skills and all maxed out then they would both be the same in the world, and in many MMO''s nobody really serves a purpose they just can do just as well as the other can in a matter of time, want to find something for that as well.

I really want uniqueness as a person in the game. The setting is already a bit thought of, I will be going for a world on the brink of creation, a world thats just beginning after being totally wiped of most life.
I want survival to be a big element, and I want to see the world progress as well as the player, so it Will be kind of post apocalyptic setting but really different in ways I cant yet explain have to write them down in a decent mamner to show them here, and I would love to hear everyones ideas on it as I go on, if anyone would be interested, as well as from posters like you three, I would love hearing more of you as well.

Lil pience of info you wanna remember hear is that yes you have a world to make but you don''t have the universe to do it in, think big but not 10 dvds worth like, also i sware ive herd this idea somewhere before...huh...

Oooo thanks for reading it again Siolis,

first is it that its very smart to pick those wonderfull good things about the mentioned games and reuse them as you see fit very clever.

" quote "
Ah, I''m glad someone finally said that, I''m making a kind of energy to material storage system which will work on storage cells which have to be made by the player to increase how much they can carry, also you will need certain ones to carry certain things. EG: To carry a motor bike you will need a vehicle storage cell which cant carry bio matter, I''m working on that so gimme time.
" quote "

WOW, terrific idea, very good that makes me thinking man thats really a nice system to work out, nice ! But on the otherhand its hard for me to comprehend for my player character having a bike in his backpack, BUT on the otherhand the idea of matter compression or de-moleculairisation sounds very good and fits good in a tecno post acolyptic world, very impressive.

I would love to hear more and more input and keep this discussion going its a pool of unlimited ideas, thanks allot !

Some thoughts on post-apocalyptic culture:

A post-apocalyptic world makes an interesting setting for several reasons:

The destruction of organized society makes room for a lot more eccentric behavior and ideas, and ''making a living'' as a scavenger of the ruins of the previous society is an intriguingly different lifestyle from the player''s real life inside a capitalist, law-regulated society. This is much the same as the romanticized ideas of the freedom of ''frontier'' life that drew all sorts of societal fringe groups like quakers and mormons to settle in the then-unregulated american colonies.

Presumably most of the world''s population got destroyed along with the society; again, the tempting vision is of a world of social and artistic freedom, where there isn''t really enough society to disapprove of anything you want to do. Now, this might be a little difficult to implement in an MMORPG - how do you make the world seem almost empty of people if you have lots of players? One idea might be to start each player in an isolated location, and another idea might be to make travel between towns very slow and difficult - makes sense if everyone''s been reduced to travelling by foot or perhaps bicycle. This scarcity of society has the nice side effect of making avery opportunity for socialization extremely valuable and putting emphasis on the significance of every individual you might meet in the RPG, encouraging players to socialize and cooperate.

Another appealing element of a post-apocalyptic game would be the McGuyver aspect: lots of bits and pieces lying around just waiting for some terribly clever player to assemble them into some reconstructed technology, like the professor on Gilligan''s Island. This might add a bit of an adventure/puzzle aspect to your game. Players like this sort of thing because it gives them a chance to exercise their creativity and an excuse to feel smart. With most of what the human race has built throughout history having been wiped away, there is suddenly room for any individual player to build something unique and contributing to the progress of the game world.

And finally, a past apocalypse is a great excuse for having various slightly crazy NPCs who cracked (or maybe just bent a little) under the stresses of the apocalypse and having their whole world change out from under them.