Every NPC in the RPG I''m working on has a personality type, 2 favored factions, one disliked faction, and various skills. Each personality type has at four benefits and four drawbacks. The Heroic type, for instance, has as one benefit a chance to thwart injury to a colleague if he''s within a certain radius, for example, but as a drawback may refuse to retreat from danger. The Cowardly type, on the other hand, will never betray you but has a higher chance of panicking during combat. This was done to make NPCs strategic, and to make the mixing and matching them interesting gameplay. Part of the goal of the game is to raise the morale/happiness of your NPCs, which gets converted to loyalty. Loyal NPCs help you gain power in the game world, protect you from enemies, and accomplish tasks that require more than two characters. Be good to them and they''ll do things like bust you out of jail or reveal critical contacts. Mistreat them and they may sell you out to the highest bidder. Now, my question: I''m looking for interesting ways to evolve a loyal NPC''s personality. All ideas are welcome. What I have right now is that there are effectively 3 positive traits and 4 negative traits, each whose severity varies by the NPC''s personality level. So a (Slightly) Heroic character is distinguished from a (Very) Heroic character by the percentage chance that both their positive and negative traits will kick in. Once they become so loyal that they''re devoted to you, not only can you turn them into a super-unit, an additional, very useful personality trait kicks in. The dangerous Opportunistic personality, for example, gains the ability to capture or kill any traitors in your midst, while the Hell Raiser personality generates bonus morale to everyone fighting alongside him. You have to work really hard to get an NPC devoted. Their loyalty caps at 80% until you either save their life, perform a critical mission for the faction they belong to, help one of their allies (friends, family), or undertake a Life Quest for them, which is a difficult task they consider vital or holy. For all that work, I''d like to offer more than another personality quirk and being able to turn them into a super-unit. I was thinking of ditching some of the negative traits at this level, but the negative traits are what make the NPC balanced and even interesting (especially since some react negatively to other personality types). Any ideas on what the NPC should turn into as a reward? -------------------- Just waiting for the mothership...

Hard to answer this without more information on the overall game design. . . especially the rewards question.

As a gamer, I like it when the NPCs respond to the situation. For example, if you save a woman's children from certain death then she would be sure to devote herself to you or behave horribly (or some other strong choice that shows her character and enhances the story). If I fetched a pail of water from a nearby well then she would be gracious but not overwhelmed. Your system seems more open-ended though. . . is the game online for multiple users and generates generic quests or is it a demo that will showcase the AI code (either case would explain your system to me)?

So that's how I would make them respond. . . Maybe add a value in your quest tool (if they are generic) that assigns a gratitude value and attach it to your storyline. This creates a new balance issue that you have to broach with your quest writers though.

[edited by - dink on March 10, 2004 9:46:59 PM]

quote: Original post by dink
Your system seems more open-ended though. . . is the game online for multiple users and generates generic quests or is it a demo that will showcase the AI code (either case would explain your system to me)?

I should have been more specific but I wanted to leave it open to people''s imagination.

Basically, you''re a character in an science fiction RPG who has the ability to build a party into a faction. Think X-Com or Freedom Force with an open-ended structure like Fallout, but where the number of characters you can deploy is very high.

There are NPCs who will work for you. In fact, if they don''t you''re limited to the weaker objects in the game (a shuttle as opposed to a battleship, for instance, because a battleship requires a crew; or an outpost as opposed to a colony, for the same reason).

The structure of the game is open ended, but there are progressively more difficult tasks which will change the state of the game world. There is no story, per se, but only that which evolves from a Risk-style dynamic which changes the game''s map. (It plays out more like history you''re a part of than a dramatic, pre-scripted and thus non-replayable tale).

Your goals in the game are to improve your character, improve your faction and win at missions you choose. Through Risk-style "rolls" the game world will be changing around you (like the Dynaverse in the Starfleet games).

Based on your improvement, outside forces will start interfering based on your stats and stats you change in the game world. So as you advance, having loyal characters who can''t be bought out from under you, or worse, who won''t sell you out, is critical.

Hope that helps without going into too much detail.

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Just waiting for the mothership...

hmm, rememinds me a bit of an idea I had a few years ago altough my idea was far less complex it didn't go into loyalty for instance. Basicly it was an RPG where there where a large number of NPCs you could recruit, each npc had both battle and a home use. If the npc was left at your base rather then brought along as part of the party they would provide a benefit each npc had a unqiue one. There was a merchant who would sell things if you gave them a shop, an adventurer who once a week would provide a you with a random rare item, to name a few. The game was going to start as an rpg, move to base/town building to a strategy game in the final stages where you lead a rebel army.

well back to your game.

hmm... thats a tough one. The obvious answer would be set of special skills or benefits, when an NPC becomes devoted they gain one of those those skills. These could be skills that are extermely useful and otherwise unattenaible. Of course this leads to question like how come the NPC can suddenly read ancient or has the ability to repair a hyperdrive with rubber band and a bent nail.

What about clans? If each npc was a member of a clan and lets say there are a large number clans, depending on the number of NPC you plan on having you could have dozens or even a hundred diffrent clans. Now these clans comprise dozens of NPCs, they also have there own powerbases and allegeinces. Now as part of the clans rules outsiders can never join the clan, unless they are invited by one they share a bond of brotherhood with. So that when an npc becomes devoted to you, you two share a bond of brotherhood. That npc then offers to take you to the clans headquaters and give you an introduction to the clans leader as an honory clansmen. This then allows the player to began gaining the clan leaders loyaltity, if they can get the clan leader to become devoted then the leader pledges the clans loyality and support to your cause. You gain the clans resources as well as all member of that clan pledge there public loyalty to you. Depending on the power of the clan the resources could be a great deal, maybe even an entire planet and a couple of battle ships.

But as far as I can figure when a npc becomes devoted there is only two kinds of benfits I can see. Gifts or service, meaning when they become devoted they provided a one time gift to show their unending support or they provide a constant service like become increadibly powerful.

wait what about aversions? What if each npc has an aversion to something in otherwards something they won't do, a kind of person they won't work with or a substance they won't have anything to do with. When the npc becomes devoted they lose this aversion. So, for example a moral chemist might refues to make illegal drugs however once they become devoted they have total faith in you and are now willing to make any illegal substance you request.

Altough I have to admit that the talk of factions and devotions gives me the impression of the player setting themselves up as some kind of religious leader.

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Writer, Programer, Cook, I'm a Jack of all Trades
Current Design project
Chaos Factor Design Document



[edited by - TechnoGoth on March 11, 2004 12:26:08 AM]

It''d be funny if the NPC developed a crush on you if you maxed out their loyalty. Hmm, I would think that increasing loyalty would naturally make someone more honest and volunteering of information, more generous and helpful, more careful when doing something for or important to the PC, and of course more obedient to the PC''s orders.

quote: Original post by TechnoGoth
hmm, rememinds me a bit of an idea I had a few years ago altough my idea was far less complex it didn''t go into loyalty for instance. Basicly it was an RPG where there where a large number of NPCs you could recruit, each npc had both battle and a home use. If the npc was left at your base rather then brought along as part of the party they would provide a benefit each npc had a unqiue one. There was a merchant who would sell things if you gave them a shop, an adventurer who once a week would provide a you with a random rare item, to name a few. The game was going to start as an rpg, move to base/town building to a strategy game in the final stages where you lead a rebel army.

Sounds very cool. The strategy and RPG blend I have has some similar elements, but only recently have a found a way to balance them so that it doesn''t feel like you end up playing a totally different game at the end.

quote:
These could be skills that are extermely useful and otherwise unattenaible. Of course this leads to question like how come the NPC can suddenly read ancient or has the ability to repair a hyperdrive with rubber band and a bent nail.

True. Although in fact that''s never stopped RPG''s that allow YOU to suddenly allocate skills, as in, "Gee, I''ve been fighting goblins all day... now I know how to open treasure chests!"

I like the idea of the skills being otherwise unattainable, btw, because it really gives you an incentive that wouldn''t be there otherwise.

quote:
What about clans? If each npc was a member of a clan and lets say there are a large number clans, depending on the number of NPC you plan on having you could have dozens or even a hundred diffrent clans. Now these clans comprise dozens of NPCs, they also have there own powerbases and allegeinces. Now as part of the clans rules outsiders can never join the clan, unless they are invited by one they share a bond of brotherhood with. So that when an npc becomes devoted to you, you two share a bond of brotherhood. That npc then offers to take you to the clans headquaters and give you an introduction to the clans leader as an honory clansmen. This then allows the player to began gaining the clan leaders loyaltity, if they can get the clan leader to become devoted then the leader pledges the clans loyality and support to your cause. You gain the clans resources as well as all member of that clan pledge there public loyalty to you. Depending on the power of the clan the resources could be a great deal, maybe even an entire planet and a couple of battle ships.

I like this. What if you broadened it into the idea of six degrees of seperation and said that NPCs have links to multiple clans? Rather than full-on clans, they could be academia, a special branch of the military, or a secret trade group. You would not otherwise have access to these groups unless an NPC revealed their membership (former or current) in one of these "clans." Once you''re a member of one of these groups, they try to help you when you ask in the way they''re specialized. So academics could secretly research technology you bring back (which might lessen the chance of it being stolen); a mobster clan might be able to get you smuggled to a location you might not otherwise get to; etc.

One possible problem (though it may not be) is that you wouldn''t really know who to develop with this type of system. This could be okay. It would just mean that rewards are more random, with the player maybe thinking, "Okay, I''m going to try to get this guy loyal to see what he gives me."

quote:
wait what about aversions? What if each npc has an aversion to something in otherwards something they won''t do, a kind of person they won''t work with or a substance they won''t have anything to do with. When the npc becomes devoted they lose this aversion. So, for example a moral chemist might refues to make illegal drugs however once they become devoted they have total faith in you and are now willing to make any illegal substance you request.

Nice. IOW, they trust that you''re more right than their principles. So maybe rather than unlocking abilities, you''re unlocking state dependent changes to abilities. Not only could the moral chemist produce illegal drugs for you, but the amoral smuggler might work with the law because you''ve asked.

I have up to nine moral dispositions already, actually, that personalities fall under. I have some work done on what actions are permissible under these moral settings (e.g., lawless NPCs can attack anyone, but lawful NPCs can only attack crooks, etc.) So it''s not too much of a stretch to say that, either as an infrequent act or simply a new ability, NPCs could shift their permissions.

quote:
Altough I have to admit that the talk of factions and devotions gives me the impression of the player setting themselves up as some kind of religious leader.

Hah. Although I do have a player character class called Demagogue and you can fill your ranks with Pious and Fanatical personality types, I''m hoping you can be Hannibal or Alexander the Great just as well.

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Just waiting for the mothership...

quote: Original post by sunandshadow
It''d be funny if the NPC developed a crush on you if you maxed out their loyalty.

How cheesy do you think it would be if such a character exhibited this as

a) Often following you around (matching your x,y,z coordinates)
b) Living baubles and notes in your quarters, chests or storage areas
c) Sighing alot while they''re around you...

LOL! IOW, how would you like to see something like this implemented. (It could work for hero worship, too, with a young character following you around and trying to dress and act like you... )

quote:
Hmm, I would think that increasing loyalty would naturally make someone more honest and volunteering of information, more generous and helpful, more careful when doing something for or important to the PC, and of course more obedient to the PC''s orders.

These are good suggestions.

About obedience: We often get annoyed when our characters in games don''t do what we ask them to do. Any ideas on making this acceptable? I think if the NPC could someone indicate that they''re being a maverick, then you''re more inclined to think it''s personality rather than stupid AI. You can still get ticked at them, though...

I wonder if it might help to be able to curse, intimidate, plead with or threaten the NPC who disobeyed? As long as it wasn''t a complete pain in the butt, getting them so loyal that this behavior goes away would be a good reward.


--------------------
Just waiting for the mothership...

quote: Original post by Wavinator

quote: Original post by sunandshadow
It''d be funny if the NPC developed a crush on you if you maxed out their loyalty.

How cheesy do you think it would be if such a character exhibited this as

a) Often following you around (matching your x,y,z coordinates)
b) Living baubles and notes in your quarters, chests or storage areas
c) Sighing alot while they''re around you...

LOL! IOW, how would you like to see something like this implemented. (It could work for hero worship, too, with a young character following you around and trying to dress and act like you... )

It''d be great if they wrote you poetry! lol And yeah, the hero worship would be really funny too. Oh and don''t forget complements, both cases would make the NPC tend to complement you a lot. Blushing, stammering, starry-eyed looks... it depends on the amound of detail your character graphics can show. And then of course they have to be totally crushed if you''re mean to them after that...

quote:
Hmm, I would think that increasing loyalty would naturally make someone more honest and volunteering of information, more generous and helpful, more careful when doing something for or important to the PC, and of course more obedient to the PC''s orders.

These are good suggestions.

About obedience: We often get annoyed when our characters in games don''t do what we ask them to do. Any ideas on making this acceptable? I think if the NPC could someone indicate that they''re being a maverick, then you''re more inclined to think it''s personality rather than stupid AI. You can still get ticked at them, though...

I wonder if it might help to be able to curse, intimidate, plead with or threaten the NPC who disobeyed? As long as it wasn''t a complete pain in the butt, getting them so loyal that this behavior goes away would be a good reward.


Bribery is an important negotiation tool too. I think that disobedience can be made less annoying simply by not suggesting to the player that npcs must or should obey them. If you portray NPCs as independant in the first place, and don''t make it vital for the player to get them to do things the don''t want to do there shouldn''t be too much annoyance, right?

Yes, having ties to multiple clans could work, espically if you tie clan opinion in with npc loyalty. So that a religious npc would become more loyal simply because the church thinks you're doing a good job. As for knowing clan ties I would suggest using background information. You could gather infomation from either public sources or private sources to discover the clan ties. For instance it might be public knowledge that Samuel is a member of the Trade federation, however it might require having someone sneak into his home and glance at his private files to learn he's seceretly a high ranking member of the Orion crime syndiciate.

It would also add an interesting dynamic into the game. The player begins making friends with Samuel and eventual recruits him into his ranks, in hopes of joining the Trade Federation. However unknown to the player Samuel is in fact working to further the crime syndicates aims by undermining your faction. Due to the fact that the player has strong ties with law enforcement and has been working to destroy the syndicate. Had the player learned of Samuel's ties to the crime syndicate they would have taken a diffrent stance towards him.

Which brings another interesting question, about devotion. If the npcs have both private and public loyalty. How is devotion determined? Can an npc be publicly devoted by privatly a traitor? Or publicly opposed and privatly devoted. I could see the latter working in the case of spies and other agents, but how would the former play out?

I like the idea of hero worship it would be fun to visit a colony and see all the kids dressed like me and running around asking for my autograph or reading a comic book based on my exploits.

Of course if you include the religious angle I could walk through the colony preaching to my flock. Perhaps I could even create a set of religious docturines and my own religious texts, just a thought.


EDIT:

I think it would be good for npcs to be autonomus, the npcs could be given orders or task and then left to accomplish the assignment. Things like research the paricle cannons, or man the comm, or follow fred. It would better showcase the AI personalities.
-----------------------------------------------------
Writer, Programer, Cook, I'm a Jack of all Trades
Current Design project
Chaos Factor Design Document

[edited by - TechnoGoth on March 12, 2004 4:12:19 AM]