Let''s see.

1024x768 resolution = 786432 pixels
24 bits of color = 16777216 colors
60 frames a second
let''s say, 90 minutes = 5400 seconds

So, there are only 4274901208793088000 different 90 minute movies that can be displayed in full screen on my monitor (granted, at the above resolution and color depth, but for the purposes of argument...)

That''s a running time of 384741108791377920000 minutes, or 6412351813189632000 hours, 267181325549568000 days, 731502602462883 years (year ~365.25 days), 731502 billions of years. And, if you were to generate 1 of these a second, that''s about 135.5 billion years. A quick search of the internet gives an extremely rough upper bound on the age of the universe as 20 billion years. Even "finite" doesn''t mean there''s any practical limit.

Anyway, there are only 17 wallpaper groups. Yep, 17. Thus, from a crystallographic perspective, there are only 17 interesting tesselating patterns. Open any book containing MC Escher''s artwork or go to a Mosque to find more than 17 (many more) different (and that''s not counting "subtle" variations, for most common definitions of "subtle") tesselating patterns. Or just go to a store that sells wallpaper to find many less than subtle variations, even if many of them are probably less than aesthetically pleasing.

the word new is relative to the viewer of the work anyway. that is as people die, and the next generation comes along, all the so called works that have already been consumed will become "new" to them, since they havnt not yet consumed it. this idea assumes also that game geres are disposable and cannot be resused after their first consumption...which is totally absurd untrue.

i conclude this post with a quote from an old must see tv summer rerun advertisement "if you havnt seen it, its new to you"

quote: Original post by Way Walker
Let''s see.

1024x768 resolution = 786432 pixels
24 bits of color = 16777216 colors
60 frames a second
let''s say, 90 minutes = 5400 seconds

So, there are only 4274901208793088000 different 90 minute movies that can be displayed in full screen on my monitor (granted, at the above resolution and color depth, but for the purposes of argument...)

Careful! You want to elevate 786432 to the 16777216th power, not multiply them. If you had 2 pixels, you''d have 16777216x16777216 possibly "images". With 3, 16777216x16777216x16777216. So forth. That''s quite a bit more than 4274901208793088000 (For the record, 16777216 x 1677216 is 281474976710656. That''s on a two pixel monitor. And that''s not even factoring in the 5400 seconds). Your point stands, though, and is further reinforced even: by the time we see all we can see within a 90 minute timeframe, we won''t even be dust anymore.

Though it''s a little bit naïve to think that way because wether Bob''s hat is blue or red, it''s still the same movie. And some of the variations in color will be so slight as to be nearly imperceptible. In the end, there''s probably only 4 different possibilities. *Nods very, very slowly.*

France science academy said, they have researched everything IIRC. Then Ion engine come.
I remmember few time ago, I listened proclamation like that. The I made three new concepts in one day. One of them is my current game. NONE of them apeared in current game industry. So we might say there is some space for new games.
Problem called copyright and paralel development is biger one. You might write a sentence. What is chance that one sentence from first writer would be the same as sentence from second? None of them know work of the other one.
Don''t say it size of the sentence ^24 it''s MUCH lower. In fact there was SHORT STORY so highly simillar, it has been reworked to avoid copyright isues. Of course problems like that would be more common.
There are just a few ways how create book or game. However problems aren''t with ideas, problems are with art that is necessary to add to the game.

Raghar

lol what do you think a game designer that invented RPG's thought? Its hard coming up with a totally original idea because if it were original, no ones ever heard of it and if it were it wouldn't be totally original. Think of the first game creators and how hard it must have been for them to come up with mechanics for an RPG or FPS.

Think of Sim City, whoever thought making a city and playing god could be so d*mn fun?

Same way goes with the Sims as well, no one ever really completely thought of a life emulator lol.

Only way to think of something original is to think "out of the box".


[edited by - SumDude on March 5, 2004 3:54:25 PM]

quote: Original post by RuneLancer
Careful! You want to elevate 786432 to the 16777216th power, not multiply them. If you had 2 pixels, you''d have 16777216x16777216 possibly "images". With 3, 16777216x16777216x16777216. So forth. That''s quite a bit more than 4274901208793088000 (For the record, 16777216 x 1677216 is 281474976710656. That''s on a two pixel monitor. And that''s not even factoring in the 5400 seconds). Your point stands, though, and is further reinforced even: by the time we see all we can see within a 90 minute timeframe, we won''t even be dust anymore.

Though it''s a little bit naïve to think that way because wether Bob''s hat is blue or red, it''s still the same movie. And some of the variations in color will be so slight as to be nearly imperceptible. In the end, there''s probably only 4 different possibilities. *Nods very, very slowly.*

CRAP! Yeah, I shouldn''t try to be smart on so little sleep. Hmm... but what you said and what you did were different. You did 16777216786432 but said it with them switched. However, what you did is right. But there ought to be an approximation of this with the subtle difference (blue or red hat) removed. How about 4x3 pixels, 15 frames (1 frame/6 minutes, 90 minute movie), in 2 color black and white. That''s 2180=1.5e54. That''s still a lot of popcorn!

quote: Original post by SumDude
lol what do you think a game designer that invented RPG's thought? Its hard coming up with a totally original idea because if it were original, no ones ever heard of it and if it were it wouldn't be totally original. Think of the first game creators and how hard it must have been for them to come up with mechanics for an RPG or FPS.

Think of Sim City, whoever thought making a city and playing god could be so d*mn fun?

Same way goes with the Sims as well, no one ever really completely thought of a life emulator lol.

Only way to think of something original is to think "out of the box".


[edited by - SumDude on March 5, 2004 3:54:25 PM]

Actually, RPGs were pretty much a given. No one had to think long and hard to make it. A lot of the first RPG's were pretty crude, but as time goes on, they started merging ideas. A genre usually emerges, it isn't created by sheer will. Anyway, to find the true stem of RPG's, you have to look even farther back, before videogames. Pen and paper RPG's have been around for a LONG time, and even those didn't just appear out of nowhere. They got their inspiration from old wargames and such. So as you can see, things typically emerge as time goes on.

As for the Sims. Nope, ain't the first life emulator. There was a little game called "Little People" or "Computer people", I can't remember the title exactly. It was around in the 80s, but never caught on. They had the mechanics wrong and it wasn't as interesting to play as the Sims. No doubt Will Wright got some of his ideas from this game. Then again, any game idea that has 10 years to develop before actually getting made better be pretty damn good. If I remember correctly, Will Wright came up with his idea for the Sims even before Simcity. Just goes to show how much faith his publishers had in the idea. The Sims is now the most popular game ever made.

Also, about Simcity. That emerged from the level editor in another one of Will Wrights earlier games. The game involved going around a city in a helicopter and blowing stuff up. I think this early game inspired the Desert Strike and Jungle Strike games as well. Anyway, after the game was finished, Wright thought making the cities in the level editor was much more fun than playing the actual game itself. That is when he decided to develop a full blown city simulator.

Matthew Overstreet

[edited by - Matto154 on March 5, 2004 4:58:58 PM]

Lets say the movies are on a black and white screen (to simplify things, we will not allow shades of gray). A monitor can support fairly high resolutions (1600x1200), but lets artifically reduce the resolution since objects are made of groups of pixels. Lets pretend the resolution is 320x200 (or 64000 pixels). If we're watching a cartoon, it doesn't need many frames per second, so lets say it has 5 frames per second. That means per second, there would be 320000 pixels. Since each pixel can have 2 different values, we get 2^320000 possible images per second of video (which has so many digits, the base-10 log comes out to #.EXT:DOUBLE-FLOAT-POSITIVE-INFINITY in corman lisp). Now, some of those will obviously be the same movie with slightly different video representation (or complete garbage), so lets pretend that only 0.006%(which is 14 halvings or /2^14) of them will be understandable and unique. That means there are still 2^319986 possible combinations each second of video.

If you reduce the artificial resolution even further, to 32*20, you get 2^640 pixels per frame, or 3200 pixels per second. Each second, there are 2^3200 possible combinations, and that number has 964 digits. Apply the 0.006% again and you still get 960 digits.

Of course, maye the 0.006% should be smaller, but you'd have to reduce it a LOT to get numbers small enough to indicate we've done everything possible already.

If you abstract it more, obviously there is less to do, but the final implementation is infinitely more important than the idea (since, in general, people pay $0 for ideas and $$ for final products)

[edited by - Extrarius on March 5, 2004 5:27:40 PM]

quote:
Of course, maye the 0.006% should be higher, but you''d have to

For some reason I tend to think this number should be a LOT smaller...

By higher, I meant the power used to get to it (since it is ~1/2^14). Edited for clarity