It seems like some of you people are complicating my favorite genre (RPGs) more than necessary. Stuff like getting rid of health meters, aging characters, and dissing on stats. Geez. Landfish has made some good points, like murder based experience systems, and that sort of stuff, but in my opinion, some of you seem to be playing anarchist just for the heck of it. Get it through your heads, people! The player isn't going to care if you've got the most radical gameplay system if it's too weird to figure out or have any fun with. There's a fine line between realism and fun. Diss on stats if you want, but I want to know just what my character is feeling. Remove health meters if you want, but I want to know if my PC (Player Character) is doing fine, because while one hit with a battle axe can kill, one hit with a wooden club probably won't. Aging characters, who needs em? I have enough to worry about with a bunch of Orcs chasing me around the countryside! I don't need to worry about my wizard getting arthritis, or my priest getting cancer! Another thing is that some of you seem to be taking the idea of Role Playing too seriously. Is FF7 a roleplaying game? Because I never acted like anybody other than myself. It was more that Cloud became like me. I didn't become him. How about Nethack? No story, just plain killing and stealing, but it's been around for 15 years, and nobody disses on it. What about the Exile series? It follows older RPG laws, but it's still fun. More fun than the complicated gameplay issues some of you guys come up with. I'm not dissing on anyone on particular, and I'm not saying thinking or trying to improve stuff is bad, but realism, story, and all the stuff you guys make a big deal out of are secondary to fun. *steps off soapbox* - DarkMage139 ++++++++++++++++ I can do things, things you never knew, I can change your world if you only knew. I can do miracles if you want me to. Anything is possible, I'll prove it to you. Edited by - DarkMage139 on 7/31/00 12:23:25 AM

[Stepping onto Soapbox]

Firstly i'd like to say that RPG's without improvment would would instintly allow people to sterotype this genre of games which would be a damn shame.

Secondly i'd like to admit with pride that i've never played a Final Fantasy and never will.

Also, "I am the player" as are all of us here and the fact that some of us here do care for better systems in RPG's goes to show that there's also most likely a lot of other people out there who want the same things we do. Generalisation is dangerous i know but thats what i believe.

And last, i'd like to remember all of the rpg's that came out and showed us all that doing things differently is where it's all at!

Thankyou,
[steps off soapbox]



I love Game Design and it loves me back.

Our Goal is "Fun"!

Edited by - Paul Cunningham on July 31, 2000 2:01:43 AM

quote: Original post by Paul Cunningham

[Stepping onto Soapbox]

Firstly i'd like to say that RPG's without improvment would would instintly allow people to sterotype this genre of games which would be a damn shame.

Perhaps...

quote:

Secondly i'd like to admit with pride that i've never played a Final Fantasy and never will.

If you're saying that Final Fantasy games are flawed, feel free to list some examples (or all, if you wish). I'm curious to see what you find wrong with it.

quote:

Also, "I am the player" as are all of us here and the fact that some of us here do care for better systems in RPG's goes to show that there's also most likely a lot of other people out there who want the same things we do. Generalisation is dangerous i know but thats what i believe.

I believe innovation is a good thing, but not at the expense of fun (again, I'm not accusing anybody of anything). Just don't get too wrapped up in it.

quote:

And last, i'd like to remember all of the rpg's that came out and showed us all that doing things differently is where it's all at!

I must respectfully disagree. FUN is where it's all at!

Innovate as much as you want, just keep it FUN!


- DarkMage139
++++++++++++++++
I can do things, things you never knew,
I can change your world if you only knew.

I can do miracles if you want me to.
Anything is possible, I'll prove it to you.

Edited by - DarkMage139 on July 31, 2000 2:15:32 AM

Dont you think that some may find fun to roleplay and that others prefers powermax. Fun is quite relative in my mind. Then this is because of this tremendous diversity of us human beings.

I think when you design a game, you design it so it would please you. For example if you really like RTS then you will do mostly RTS. Well for me it works that way.

I didnt play FF because for me it lacked something. I couldnt say what, but i didnt feel drawn in the game so it wasnt interesting for me.

Yes, i forgot to say that RPG means Role Playing Games

"Between the time when the oceans drank Atlantis and the rise of the sons of Arius there was an age undreamed of..."

Edited by - DungeonMaster on July 31, 2000 2:39:31 AM

It's not a question of whether Final Fantasys are flawed, it's more a matter of appeal. This series of games far from appeal to me. i.e Everyone in the game has blow away charisma (yuck, spew, yuck), then i hear that there's little improvment between versions of FF. There are other things too, but overall it just seems like a big money ploy to me which spells B O R I N G W A S T E O F M O N E Y

quote:
I must respectfully disagree. FUN is where it's all at!

Innovate as much as you want, just keep it FUN!

Yes, we are the designers of fun. But game design should be fun aswell so that's what i do. "Make fun with fun" yeah?

quote:
I believe innovation is a good thing, but not at the expense of fun (again, I'm not accusing anybody of anything). Just don't get too wrapped up in it.

In my case, half the fun of my game designing experience comes from being inovative so i can't help it. Also I'm always measuring up my new thoughts against the omnivous fun factor, no doubt about that. Sometimes i come up with an idea that sounds good but it may not be fun so i work out why. This is game desgin to me Must go back to working on the economics model for my board game now. Cheers




I love Game Design and it loves me back.

Our Goal is "Fun"!

Edited by - Paul Cunningham on July 31, 2000 2:49:51 AM

In addition to my original two signatures, which are incredibly applicable here, I also wish to mention this:

When you meet the Buddha, kill the Buddha.

In questioning the questions, you have shown that you are truly thinking about what you want and what you don''t. I wish I had a medal to present you with, but alas, this is only a message board.

======
"The unexamined life is not worth living."
-Socrates

"Question everything. Especially Landfish."
-Matt

Personally, I thought our NPCAI stuff was quite informative . I would say that the majority of ideas that have come out of forums here on GDNet have been informative and enlightening... You must be one of those anarchists that you are talking of, we are the artists! We paint the picture! Are you a critic or an art lover?! LOVE WHAT YOU GET COZ YOU GET WHAT YOU LOVE; RPGs!!!



-Chris Bennett ("Insanity" of Dwarfsoft)

Check our site:
http://www.crosswinds.net/~dwarfsoft/
Check out our NPC AI Mailing List :
http://www.egroups.com/group/NPCAI/
made due to popular demand here at GDNet :)

You are right, you know, DarkMage...
The point of change is not change, it is to make things better. Making things better is the reason, and there should not be another. However, some of these ideas have come from trying very hard to make things better, and seeing novel ways of doing it. Often, that had to do with challenging old, rusty ideas. I guess it''s kindof in fashion to do that now, and it seems to be getting a bit stale to challenge every single idea.


Give me one more medicated peaceful moment.
~ (V)^|) |<é!t|-| ~
ERROR: Your beta-version of Life1.0 has expired. Please upgrade to the full version. All important social functions will be disabled from now on.

Or perhaps we''re tired of being served the same ol'' soup only with different colors. We realize that if we want to have a chance to sell our product we must be different. And thus please the tons of players that are bored with the big budget games.

Maybe it is that you are afraid of thought in the amature programmers? Maybe you think that all would be programmers should just make clones and they should have downloaded the source code off the net somewhere? I think that what we discuss here is our own personal ideas on what *WE* would like in games... As we all play games here (I would hope so ) I would think that we are all qualified to see problems in current systems, and possible benefits of different systems (as programmers... most of us anyway ).

Enough rant! More Diversity!


-Chris Bennett ("Insanity" of Dwarfsoft)

Check our site:
http://www.crosswinds.net/~dwarfsoft/
Check out our NPC AI Mailing List :
http://www.egroups.com/group/NPCAI/
made due to popular demand here at GDNet :)