Why is it that all characters and classes in RPG have to be so super human to be fun? I think that this is leading most RPG into the Genre of being a sub FPS or something similar. Shouldn''t rare abilities like detect evil/good and other almost magical abilities be preserved for characters that have made accomplishments rather than just starting the game as a wizard or paladin etc. Just to be called a wizard should be a status in itself little lone being able to cast wall of fire after killing 100 enemies. Why not just start the game with an ordinary human and work you way up from there. I love Game Design and it loves me back. Our Goal is "Fun"!

I think that''s a pretty cool idea... i find character classes annoying. I think it would be cool if you could chose a character''s gender, hair color, eye color (well...), and so on, and then start the game and build up your character''s statistics based on what you practice, not on where you want to distribute your 5 point when you get a level up

I''ll repeat myself, but I still can''t believe that computer RPG seem to be still living ten years ago when it come to the rule system. Why oh why this obsolete class system, while using a skill based system you will obtain classes indirectly and much more, first all satisfying this need of players for control ove their character. The only danger I know of is the "collectioning" of skills in a very unrealistic manner, just for the sake of spending XP (a wizard spending all his points on improving his skills in two handed weapons ?).
You might suggest that this class system allows for specific class powers to be given to the character. I''ll say, who said you couldn''t join a guild of such or such profession (wizards, thieves,etc) and receive a special course, teaching new those specific skills ... rather than suddendly waking up one morning being able summon level 3 elementals. (read that one to understand what I mean ).

As for heroic characters vs normal characters ?
First of all, getting your character to start from a mere apprentice and work is way upwards is a very rewarding experience only if the plot helps it... I loved having my character starts as a squire, and after 4 YEARS of playing, become a champion of the Emperor, captain mercenary, and finally retire in a castle offered by the Emperor for saving his life ... (the Imperial Campaign, for Warhammer RPG). Now how the heck do you implement this correctly in a CRPG ?
As well, it''s really just a question of design to decide wether to start poorly/greatly. For instance see Birthright (an extension ? to AD&D) where you start as a King, an Archmage, etc. everything in the game is planned to accomodate the scale of power given to the players.
On the other hand, my most memorable night of roleplay was through the role of a ghoul in Vampire RPG (the ghouls are extremly limited compared to the their vampire masters and are totally dependant on them).

anyway.

youpla :-P

it looks like we''re all agree with each other so i guess this is not much of a discussion, just a moan about the annoying things about RPGs

the other thing that irritates me is the way mana and health are dealt with... it''s such an ''un-mystical'' way of going about magic power by having x out of y mana. Surely you could simply make it so that the rate of fire of a fireball spell, for example, depends on how learned the character is in that particular spell... or you could change the power of the spell depending on how long the use hold the mouse down for... but the more powerful the spell is, the longer it takes for the character to recover, or whatever.

Also, instead of having a ''spells list'' for each character, it would be better if the player (the person sitting in front of the monitor) has to learn the spells him/herself. You could do this a bit like how it has been done in Black and White - different mouse movement combinations result in different spells.

I like this idea, the only problem that I see is that you''ll get a lot of middle of the road, jack of all trades, characters. I''m guessing that the best way to fight that is just to reward specialization, and give the middle-ground characters less potential for becoming powerful.

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Whenever I see an old lady slip and fall on a wet sidewalk, my first instinct is to laugh. But then I think, what if I was an ant and she fell on me? Then it wouldn't seem quite so funny.

Paul, simply open the most recent RPG books and look at how you must create a character.
Classes are dead and I''m happy !

Characters are based on proficiencies like nayone in real life.
Restrictions/abilities can be ''bought'' at birth...



-* So many things to do, so little time to spend. *-

That is pretty much the premise of my RPG. I really don''t like how players are forced to select specific classes, it makes the game very linear and everyone in the game the same. My goal is to make a game character class system that can be unique and is completely driven by the players in-game decisions.

For example, there is no levels in the game, there is still experience, but exp is used to be able to purchase ability points or attribute points. How these points are purhased can reallly have an impact on the characters final/overall game experience. A character can use these points to apply them to any and all abbilities and attributes, regardless of occupation.

There are no classes, I refer to them as an occupation that a character will wish to pursue. Characters are free to venture into other occupations and are not restricted. Each character in the game is ranked by their achievements , their age and their experience. I have a hierarchy based occupation tree. A character can traverse the tree in any field they wish. If they wanted to pursue a different occupation, they would start back at the beginning.

I''m experimenting with character personalities and how personalities could directly or indirectly effect a characters game play.

Magic is a key part of this RPG, but there is no mana. A characters ability to perform any action, regardless of what they have decided to pursue as their occupation is driven by the characters fatigue/energy level. So if a character casts a spell, they will drain some of their energy. When a warrior swings his/her sword, they will use this energy as well.

As much as I tried to remove the life indicators from my design, it always came back that I needed some form of health indicators. People just like knowing what their health is.

That''s about it.

I think you might be able to solve the problem by limiting the speed at which you progress. perhaps at the end of the day you only increase incrementally in the skill you performed most? I don''t like that idea very much because it creates a glass ceiling, but that''s what you want, right?

Or you could do it this way... if skills imporve REALLY slowly, and it takes more and more time to raise them to higher levels, eventually the player will not have time to raise them all, or even most of them. She will have to stick with the ones most important to her character. IF you start them off in the middle of this kkind of situation, things should balance out.

You guys are on the right path, though. Welcome to the dark side.

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"The unexamined life is not worth living."
-Socrates

"Question everything. Especially Landfish."
-Matt

yeah...i hate having be so constrained when creating a character. i hate wizards, i hate warriors...etc. they are all too limiting.

if everyone were to have the same stats...then it would be much more like real life. i think that the best way to "level up" would be to just have stats for certain things. the more you hack and slash at a tree, the higher your "lumberjacking" skills reach. i know that this is really simple...but i think that its the most effectvive. just like in real life. im sure that if i were to go out and chop down trees right now...i would really suck at it. but if i were to do it over and over and over and over again...then i will start to become much better at it.
so what if a thief likes cutting down trees? (although there wouldnt really BE any theives)


this is probably in the wrong forum, but it pertains to stats, so ill say it anyways....

i think that if you dont use a certain skill for a period of time...then your skill level for that should start to decrease. just like im forgeting it. for example...i am a thief and i build up my pickpocketing stats really high...then i dont do it for a long time. i think that my pickpocket stats should decrease. im out of practice, so i am sloppy now. guess i will have to re-learn everything.

i was going to say something else...but i forgot now...oh well.

-Luxury

ahh yes...i remember now...

having to do with magic...i think that magic is way to overused. i think that (and this only applies to MMORPGs) when you create a character, there should be no magic anything. it is just assumed that you will not have magic at all. then you have a randomizer so that maybe 1 out of every 100 people has magic. and you are created with it when you create your character. THEN you have to go and learn spells...probably from one of the other people who has magic. i know that this would make a lot of people mad...but much more realistic as far as percentages are concerned.

the only drawback i would see would be people creating a character...discovering that they dont have magic, and immediately create a new character. and so on and so on until they get lucky. so of course you would only have the option of creating one character per account.

-Luxury